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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Suggestion for the main site - selection of games (Read 7752 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #14 - 08/21/14 at 21:23:01
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It sounds to me that Hicetnuc's wish would be satisfies by just including one or two additional games, with almost no annotations, into the main illustrative game?  In other words, the main game is a heavyweight clash like Anand - Grischuck 2015, but at a couple of points there is a note like:

"16...Bc6?! 17.Ne5! (and continuing for another 15 moves or so) was an easy victory for White in Kaidanov - ErictheRed, 2012."
  
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hicetnunc
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #13 - 07/19/14 at 08:13:58
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Unfortunately, my subscription ended before I had time to look at it, but I will renew soon.

I noticed GM McDonald added a short one sentence intro to his game analysis this month, and it's a nice little extra to help the reader orientate himself  Smiley
  

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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #12 - 06/22/14 at 14:01:10
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hicetnunc wrote on 05/20/14 at 10:33:35:
Hence, a small suggestion, if only for variety's sake. Why not offer from time to time, games which are more 'practical', such as those played by pros against strong amateurs in the open (ie. +2400 vs. -2200) and add some general instruction comments?


I hope you like my game from this month's Flank update. Smiley
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #11 - 06/21/14 at 15:31:14
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hicetnunc wrote on 05/22/14 at 17:46:43:
Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. Of course, chesspub isn't a beginner site, and nobody expects basic explaining of the common openings and variations.

No, the idea I had in mind was rather to show how stronger players beat amateurs (opening choice, handling of the middlegame/endgame) in playable but not ultra-topical variations.

I'm sure there are many games meeting these criteriae already in the database, and I've probably missed a lot of them. As I indicated above, I found the game Kemp - Palliser (2011) which is an excellent example of those annotations.

The game is a 2.c3 Sicilian, and rather than a theoretical line, the amateur picks a non-critical, yet plausible move. It's very interesting to see how Palliser assesses the various turning points of the game.

For example comments in this game on the moves 9.Bd2, 11...Nb6, 13...Nxb3, 17...Nd5, 20...Rb8 I find extremely interesting, without them being trivial I think (I don't copy the comments because of copyright).



Check out the King Pawn section.  This month's update is a good mix of games.  There's the usual selection from the tippy top and then you get three of Victor's own.  I, for one, appreciate seeing Victor's games in the update as they are all theoretically interesting and, more importantly, I just always like to hear what a strong player has to say about his own games.  One of the games might even fit your bill.  Victor wins as Black against a 2300 player in a side line of the Giuoco Piano.  The game shows how a GM takes advantage of a few inaccuracies to build up a winning position.

Wink

  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #10 - 06/06/14 at 10:01:56
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hicetnunc wrote on 05/22/14 at 17:46:43:
No, the idea I had in mind was rather to show how stronger players beat amateurs (opening choice, handling of the middlegame/endgame) in playable but not ultra-topical variations.


OK, I will try to add one or two that fit the bill in this coming month's updates, and see how it works out.

hicetnunc wrote on 05/22/14 at 17:46:43:
I'm sure there are many games meeting these criteria already in the database, and I've probably missed a lot of them.


Yes, you should look at some of the early games annotated by Motwani, Lane and Summerscale. Roll Eyes
  
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Lou_Cyber
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #9 - 05/23/14 at 16:07:07
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I am happy with the level of annotations. We may not only look at the actual game, but also at the opening books.

In these books I often find general explanations regarding typical structures etc.. And this is important for me, because it is often the first place to look if I think about working on a certain opening.

Having said that, the quality and size of opening books varies too. E.g., compare the size of the french or KID books to the books on the Scotch and the Petroff. I miss some explanations in the Scotch and Petroff book, but we have to acknowledge that the  1.e4 e5 section is definitely the toughest section of the site.
  

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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #8 - 05/22/14 at 17:46:43
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Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. Of course, chesspub isn't a beginner site, and nobody expects basic explaining of the common openings and variations.

No, the idea I had in mind was rather to show how stronger players beat amateurs (opening choice, handling of the middlegame/endgame) in playable but not ultra-topical variations.

I'm sure there are many games meeting these criteriae already in the database, and I've probably missed a lot of them. As I indicated above, I found the game Kemp - Palliser (2011) which is an excellent example of those annotations.

The game is a 2.c3 Sicilian, and rather than a theoretical line, the amateur picks a non-critical, yet plausible move. It's very interesting to see how Palliser assesses the various turning points of the game.

For example comments in this game on the moves 9.Bd2, 11...Nb6, 13...Nxb3, 17...Nd5, 20...Rb8 I find extremely interesting, without them being trivial I think (I don't copy the comments because of copyright).
  

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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #7 - 05/22/14 at 14:04:53
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/22/14 at 10:36:43:
'White will expand on the queenside with b4 and c5 as he has more space there, while Black will play on the kingside with ...f5' every time you annotate a King's Indian either!


I've just uploaded David's May KID update, sometimes the new move can occur as late as move 20, or even after, so it's ridiculous to keep trying to say new things about a position that's already been annotated 50 or more times! In such cases you can only start the annotations after the new move.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #6 - 05/22/14 at 10:36:43
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Bibs wrote on 05/21/14 at 05:25:31:
Good opening theory discussion is what interests me, not chatty fluff.


Yes, me too! The problem is that you can't keep repeating 'the battle is over the d5-square' every time you analyse a Najdorf where Black plays ...e5, or 'White will expand on the queenside with b4 and c5 as he has more space there, while Black will play on the kingside with ...f5' every time you annotate a King's Indian either! Anyone who subscribes should already know these things already.
However, there is still a need to explain positional themes, and looking at the last few updates I think there is a reasonable mix, for instance (picking one game by chance) Glenn says: 'The isolated pawn on d5 does have a cramping effect on Black's position, but as a pair of minor pieces have already been exchanged, then this effect is diminished.' Obvious, and yet still useful.
  
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #5 - 05/21/14 at 05:25:31
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Agree with Stigma, JohnG.
Good opening theory discussion is what interests me, not chatty fluff.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #4 - 05/20/14 at 21:03:22
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I mainly agree with JohnG - the deep, cutting edge theory is the main point of the site. If it works, don't fix it!

But I'm also a fan of good, systematic presentations of typical themes for an opening (not necessarily occuring in the opening stage itself). For some reason I'm reminded of Chris Ward's Dragon section here - especially the early material was full of typical sacrifices, tactics, endgames and instructive mistakes, but he also does this occasionally in the regular updates.

So maybe this could be an idea for a separate service/section? Full mastery of an opening certainly involves both lots of thematic ideas and concrete theory. Though it's possible to subconsciously master all the themes by just immersing oneself in theory and games, not everybody works that way. And the lower down the rating ladder you go, the less important the latest novelty becomes. Such a section could be even more systematic and focused than "here's a (full) game that featured an interesting idea" - often a few segments is a better way to show the idea, as in some of the better opening books that have a thematic section. There could even be exercises to solidify the new understanding.

There are some colums on chess.com that do something like what I'm thinking of, for example by Silman (those columns where he deals with a specific theme) and Serper (on typical openings tactics).
  

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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #3 - 05/20/14 at 14:32:17
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I would like to express exactly the opposite sentiment. I am a recent gold subscriber and when I downloaded the full collection of games in pgn I was surprised by the difference in quality between the older and newer material. The newer material from Mikhalevski, Watson etc. seems great. The older product is something I would never have purchased. Whenever I see that a game was annotated by Paul Motwani, for example, I just skip it. I don't need to be told that knights need outposts and that f7 is a weak square.

Having written the above I doubted myself and decided to go back and check to see if Motwani's stuff is really so bad. One of the first games I see in the database when I search for Motwani is a lightly annotated Greco game. Shocked Don't get me wrong, Greco games are fun for teaching about discoveries and whatnot, but does anyone need a $100 a year subscription to a website for that? The selling point of ChessPublishing is that a web/subscription model allows material to be very topical. This is only a selling point when dealing with serious opening theory. The other areas of chess may be more important for lower rated players, but books are as useful for studying these areas as they ever were. The appeal of the site for me is serious analysis of topical opening theory.
  

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hicetnunc
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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #2 - 05/20/14 at 12:46:09
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Maybe I'm in a minority here.

Or maybe it could be hosted in a new dedicated section ?

I'm sure there would be an audience for this kind of games (sometimes the amateur lasts more than 20 moves, doesn't he ?), and it's something you just don't find anywhere.
  

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Re: Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
Reply #1 - 05/20/14 at 12:41:26
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hicetnunc wrote on 05/20/14 at 10:33:35:
Hence, a small suggestion, if only for variety's sake. Why not offer from time to time, games which are more 'practical', such as those played by pros against strong amateurs in the open (ie. +2400 vs. -2200) and add some general instruction comments ?


Many years ago there were lots of games like this, from Aaron, Gary and Andy, but these short games where the amateur misplays his opening and loses in 20 moves have very limited theoretical value and we used to get a lot of complaints! Roll Eyes
Perhaps we've gone too far in the other direction?
  
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hicetnunc
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Suggestion for the main site - selection of games
05/20/14 at 10:33:35
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Hello,

I've been a subscriber at ChessPublishing for many years, and I like the 'no fuss' and good quality service you offer.

However, in the recent years, I have found it more and more difficult to use the annotated games, as it looks like authors go always deeper into very detailed analysis variations which are already the fruit of home engine analysis themselves Cheesy

I know this is the nature of modern chess to become more and more concrete, but I feel like the current selection and annotation style shifts towards a somewhat 'pro-level'. At my level (~2050), and no longer in my prime  Wink, I find it increasingly difficult to follow it. The theory is also extremely topical.

Hence, a small suggestion, if only for variety's sake. Why not offer from time to time, games which are more 'practical', such as those played by pros against strong amateurs in the open (ie. +2400 vs. -2200) and add some general instruction comments ? I think it would be both interesting and educative to see which 'surprise weapons' pros use to win, and how they do it.

On a related note, I also like when authors give a general opinion about the variation they're examining ('topical', 'very sharp', 'surprise').

edit : an example of the type of games I'm thinking of is Kemp-Palliser, 2011 - with nice annotations and insights into Richard's thought process
  

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