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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes. (Read 29038 times)
Keano
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #101 - 06/14/14 at 17:46:18
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Vass wrote on 06/13/14 at 09:14:29:
Just you wait...for the ACC police!  Grin
Look at my previous post in this thread...and you'll know what I mean!


I saw it and I completely agree with you!
  
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Vass
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #100 - 06/13/14 at 09:14:29
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Keano wrote on 06/13/14 at 08:35:50:
Still cannot see it. When I am playing well I dont blunder and a lot of my moves match computer moves.

Will someone be along to arrest me now?


Just you wait...for the ACC police!  Grin
Look at my previous post in this thread...and you'll know what I mean!
  
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Keano
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #99 - 06/13/14 at 08:35:50
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Still cannot see it. When I am playing well I dont blunder and a lot of my moves match computer moves.

Will someone be along to arrest me now?
  
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MartinC
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #98 - 06/12/14 at 19:32:01
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Yes, so the pattern of play is going to be entirely different from any plausible pattern of play for someone cheating with an engine over the board.

Very big differences between someone parroting computer ideas - the plausible over the board situation - and someone looking at all the different lines, bouncing ideas off the computer etc etc.
(Well the absence of blunders might give centaurs away too, but a different pattern OTB as tranmissions errors etc etc will mean you blunder every now and then.).
  
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RdC
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #97 - 06/12/14 at 17:23:52
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MartinC wrote on 06/12/14 at 12:41:00:
I wonder if you'd want to condemn them though?


Condemn is perhaps the wrong word. Detect perhaps and what they are doing is legal for ICCF play but not for Over the Board. These are games where it is known that the probability of a chess engine being consulted during the game is reasonably high, but it isn't being done on the basis of just reproducing engine suggestions.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #96 - 06/12/14 at 16:47:45
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RdC wrote on 06/12/14 at 09:11:06:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/12/14 at 08:12:29:

Basically, the match-up rate is high, but not ridiculously high.


How many would his proposed ACC method condemn as computer cheats?


I'd have to do the math to figure out the exact limits, but the top 600 were all well above 2700 strength.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #95 - 06/12/14 at 12:41:00
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I wonder if you'd want to condemn them though? I doubt it. There's no way that anyone will be able to sit consoluting a computer in the same sort of way over the board.
(Until we get direct brain interfaces or something, but a while before that Wink)
  
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RdC
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #94 - 06/12/14 at 09:11:06
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/12/14 at 08:12:29:

Basically, the match-up rate is high, but not ridiculously high.


How many would his proposed ACC method condemn as computer cheats?
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #93 - 06/12/14 at 08:12:29
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Regan did do a study of games played using Advanced Chess or centaur chess.

Here's a link:

http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/chess/fidelity/FreestyleStudy.html

Basically, the match-up rate is high, but not ridiculously high. What is incredibly low is the error rate. These can be seen by clicking on the links within the article.
  
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GeneM
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #92 - 06/11/14 at 18:57:30
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. .
RdC wrote on 06/11/14 at 15:33:17:
I'm still curious as to what the statistics are for top correspondence players in events where computer use is allowed.
Those who play at that level do not consider it adequate to simply take an engine's move or assessment at face value.

Cool question.
. .
  

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MartinC
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #91 - 06/11/14 at 18:34:47
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You'd never, ever pick up just the odd computer move. Far too small a signal to find Smiley

The best feature of doing this is the negative impact - if someone does suddenly hit really good form then you know they're being checked so you can hopefully avoid worries that they're just parroting computer moves somehow.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #90 - 06/11/14 at 16:00:53
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Not sure whether we'd have caught the French players this way or not, but they were getting an engine's move, so to me it's likely that they would have come under suspicion.  We'd certainly have caught Ivanov, though. 

But RdC is right; we aren't going to catch everyone with this method, so we shouldn't bother. 
  
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RdC
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #89 - 06/11/14 at 15:33:17
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/11/14 at 14:55:55:
Regan is talking about a sustained level of perfection over the course of an entire tournament, or several tournaments.


For many practical purposes that is a worthless test. It gives a possible means of making accusations against those who might come tooled up with a miniature camera and a shoe based computer. It doesn't tell you about someone who plays most games or even most moves legitimately but from time to time gets the odd hint or assessment from an engine during a game. So what is the purpose of monitoring every game and making potential accusations unsupported by any physical evidence?

I'm still curious as to what the statistics are for top correspondence players in events where computer use is allowed. Those who play at that level do not consider it adequate to simply take an engine's move or assessment at face value.
  
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #88 - 06/11/14 at 14:55:55
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So many people are fixating on a single game. Regan is talking about a sustained level of perfection over the course of an entire tournament, or several tournaments. The odds of sustaining such a level over many games is very low. How low depends on the number of moves analysed. Elsewhere, he talks about analysing 200 non-database, non-trivial moves (moves where the engine's evaluation is less than +/-3.00 pawns).
  
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MartinC
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Re: Can Fritz estimate my Elo rating? Yes.
Reply #87 - 06/11/14 at 14:34:27
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Don't think you'd have caught those French players this way either. Or some lower tech anologue. You're just relying on having 2/3 people in the loop making it all much more vunerable.
  
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