Just as an update I have taken a look and found nothing inspiring. It seems that in the critical line with Kb1 and h4 blacks best shot is to play h5. The idea then (just to clarify: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Qa5 11.h4 Rfc8 12.Bb3 Ne5 13.Kb1 h5) would be to counter whites usual 14.Bg5 with 14..Kf8 which at least gets out of the way for Bb3 and removes Nd5xe7/f6 with check. Still after looking with some assistance from an engine I have no faith in blacks position here either. After moving around the pieces for a while I have a hard time finding a single line where Qa5 is more of an asset than a liability. The queen threatens little, and is expposed to discovered atttacks/exchange by Nd5. Black often seems forced to go for Rxc3 in positions where I deeply mistrust the compensation...I had very little knowledge of this line since before and could well be unsufficiently familiar with the ideas to analyse efficiently, but it seems it is not for me.

I remember some years ago I was playing a critical round to get the first place of a local open. I was Black against a solid 2200. My normal repertoire is the Accelerated Dragon but I thought it may be hard to unbalance the position to play for a win if he is solid. After the game I understood I should have play normally and let him play for a win, and let him unbalance the game in a way I know well. I made a quick preparation for some days as Black with WWTDII and other sources where I thought my repertoire was ok. And my opponent went for the quick h4!+ 13.Kb1! where there is 13..b5 14.Ncxb5! etc (deep analysis required). Instead I had prepared 13..Nc4 and after 14.Bxc4 Rxc4 15.Nb3! Qc7 (other moves exists) I was prepared against 16.Bd4 or g4 which is often recommanded. My opponent went for the direct 16.h5!? which I didn't find in books, and after the classical 16..Rxc3 17.Qxc3 Qxc3 18.bxc3 Nxh5, my opponent played 19.Bd4 and there is not so many games in databases, statistics are even quite good for Black, but I had a very bad impression of struggling for survive without fun while playing it, and lost badly. I won't play this line ever, when you know that the guy got a good position even with a "not recommanded line".

I dont remember the exackt move order by as I recall it was based on this idea

EDIT maybee h5 was also inserted also Ward did not cover the refutation

Thanks a lot everyone. I'm taking a look at this line to see if it could possibly be viable for CC play. there has been a few CC games in recent years, and white is scoring quite well, but not devastatingly so. On the other hand it is not the CC elite who plays it (with either color). Logically it seems that black enrolls more pieces in the counterattack than in the regular lines, but as a consequence also fewer pieces in the defence. It seems crucial to me if the rook on a8 has any time to get useful. Such reasoning can at best be a hint, but in these kind of lines everything comes down to specific anyway. If I find anything I like which seems to contradict the general consensus (doesn't seems particularly likely, but if you don't try it never happens) I'll post it here.

MNb wrote on 06/28/14 at 12:48:24:


I think this has been known for a while. Back in 1991, I played exactly that sequence, facing 15. .. Qd8. The problem for Black is that 16. e5 Ne8 17. h5 is dangerous because of the tactical weakness of the Bd7. Personal notes to my own game, written at the time, mention the old 1980s Miles & Moskow book. The 1991 game continued 17 .. Bxe5 18. hxg6 hxg6 19. Bd4. Black now plays an almost forced exchange sacrifice with 19. .. Rxd4 and with the position now quiet, does Black have enough? Engines think not.

The first edition of Ward's book recommends .. b5 rather than .. Nc4, but just taking the pawn now seems good for White.

It can be illuminating to revisit these older tactical sequences with the aid of the engine, but when they don't end in mate or serious material loss, you still have the problem of assessing the resulting positions which are likely to be imbalanced as Black has probably sacrificed the exchange.

So is that the verdict? The Qa5 and Rfc8 plan doesn't lead to complete disaster, but the best it offers, assuming accurate tactics, is being a bit worse in an unbalanced ending

You might not have read WWTD2, for Chris has an improvement over the quoted game (13. ... Rc3:!) which makes black look alright.

I can't remember if there is a "refutation", but I know I have looked at some games with a quick Kb1 after long castle, followed by Nd5. Sorry, no more detail than that (I don't play 1. e4 as White, as you know).

But someone here should of course have more detail than that (probably you too...)