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Poll Question: Fianchetto Modern Benoni Poll: Which line is best?



« Last Modified by: TheDragon on: 07/12/14 at 16:14:47 »
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other (Read 9616 times)
MARCO
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #11 - 04/29/15 at 16:39:02
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Hi:
I have played at correspondence 21...Qd8!  as a significant improvement on what is stated in the other parties referred.
Best Regards,
Marco.

Vass wrote on 07/14/14 at 21:58:09:
TheDragon wrote on 07/14/14 at 10:29:26:
In the Fianchetto 4.d5 mainline, it seems that black gets more than satisfactory play for the piece sac. Even in Avrukh's lines, black seems fine. Now if we count the improvements, black might even be a tiny bit better (according to the engine.).

To me it seems that black has plenty of lines to equality. I find it a little bit strange that so few people play the MB at top level.

Engine evaluations may be delusive in such positions. While in OTB chess black is doing fine, in the correspondence one it doesn't look like this. (Btw, titled CC players are not so keen on Modern Benoni, too.)
Here some CC games where white know what to do (in this exact variation):


  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #10 - 07/16/14 at 19:09:21
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I've seen a couple of annotated games with 10.Bf4 but otherwise don't really know much "theory," I just play a normal game of chess and look through a database.  One key idea is 10.Bf4 a6 11.a4 Qc7 12.Rc1 Nbd7 13.b4! with pressure against Black's queenside, though nowadays this is considered OK for Black.

White nearly always answers ...Nh5 with Bg5, hoping to extract a weakness in the form of ...h6 at some point.  Otherwise, a direct x...Nh5 y.Be3 can often be met with y...Rxe3! and excellent compensation for the exchange, as the e3-pawn will often be lost after a later ...Bg7-h6. 

10...Na6 makes some sense, as the knight doesn't interfere with the protection of the d6-pawn here.  10...Na6 11.Re1 Bg4 12.h3 Bxf3 13.Bxf3 is generally thought to be equal, but White has two bishops and something to play for.

Just some guidelines; I don't know a resource on this for the White side.  Marian Petrov's GM Repertoire 12 covers it for Black, and in my opinion he claims equality a bit too freely/easily (like all repertoire books), but otherwise it's probably a good overview of theory.  Some of his lines that end in equality have scored extremely well for White in practice, which does indicate that White might at least have good practical chances.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #9 - 07/16/14 at 06:11:12
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ErictheRed wrote on 07/15/14 at 18:51:46:
Realize that Avrukh's offered repertoire is not the only way to play.  In the Fianchetto Benoni White also has 10.Bf4, for instance.  A move played by Smyslov, Yusupov, Aronian, Caruana, Ivanchuk, Grischuk, Kaidanov, Akobian, Leitao, Illescas Cordoba, Smejkal...the list goes on and on, even Avrukh in 2012.  I wouldn't abandon 4.d5 because of a piece sac that comes 14 moves later.  There are alternatives.

I also wouldn't abandon 4.Nf3 because of 4...cd 5.Nxd4 d5, that's just a position that I decided that I didn't want to face as I didn't feel nearly as comfortable there as I did in other 4.Nf3 lines, so thought I'd point it out as it's a bit different than the rest.  You'll have to decide for yourself.


Yes, I also had a quick look at that. Maybe I will go into it deeper.

Especially after that correspondence game by tony37, it looks like a really attractive line now.  Smiley

Does anyone know of any books, videos etc. to learn these lines?
  
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #8 - 07/15/14 at 20:03:42
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this is a recent correspondence game wiith 11.Bf4



when analysing this line some years ago I concluded it was better to put the queen on c7, but maybe black thought 11...Qe7 was a better way to play for a win
probably h6+g5 was too weakening
  
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #7 - 07/15/14 at 18:51:46
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Realize that Avrukh's offered repertoire is not the only way to play.  In the Fianchetto Benoni White also has 10.Bf4, for instance.  A move played by Smyslov, Yusupov, Aronian, Caruana, Ivanchuk, Grischuk, Kaidanov, Akobian, Leitao, Illescas Cordoba, Smejkal...the list goes on and on, even Avrukh in 2012.  I wouldn't abandon 4.d5 because of a piece sac that comes 14 moves later.  There are alternatives.

I also wouldn't abandon 4.Nf3 because of 4...cd 5.Nxd4 d5, that's just a position that I decided that I didn't want to face as I didn't feel nearly as comfortable there as I did in other 4.Nf3 lines, so thought I'd point it out as it's a bit different than the rest.  You'll have to decide for yourself.
  
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TheDragon
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #6 - 07/15/14 at 16:35:24
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Vass wrote on 07/14/14 at 21:58:09:
TheDragon wrote on 07/14/14 at 10:29:26:
In the Fianchetto 4.d5 mainline, it seems that black gets more than satisfactory play for the piece sac. Even in Avrukh's lines, black seems fine. Now if we count the improvements, black might even be a tiny bit better (according to the engine.).

To me it seems that black has plenty of lines to equality. I find it a little bit strange that so few people play the MB at top level.

Engine evaluations may be delusive in such positions. While in OTB chess black is doing fine, in the correspondence one it doesn't look like this. (Btw, titled CC players are not so keen on Modern Benoni, too.)
Here some CC games where white know what to do (in this exact variation):



That is quite interesting. Thank you.  Smiley

Sadly, I am playing OTB chess  Sad But it does seem that the general consensus from the poll and (a couple) posts is that 4.d5 is the way to go.

Probably the best thing to do is to have deep preparation and sharp tactical skills. For whom is the line easier to play? White or black? Seems tough for both sides, TBH.

Does anyone here know of good resources in my struggle against the MB? I am of course aware of Avrukh vol.2, but what else?

Thank you and regards.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #5 - 07/14/14 at 21:58:09
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TheDragon wrote on 07/14/14 at 10:29:26:
In the Fianchetto 4.d5 mainline, it seems that black gets more than satisfactory play for the piece sac. Even in Avrukh's lines, black seems fine. Now if we count the improvements, black might even be a tiny bit better (according to the engine.).

To me it seems that black has plenty of lines to equality. I find it a little bit strange that so few people play the MB at top level.

Engine evaluations may be delusive in such positions. While in OTB chess black is doing fine, in the correspondence one it doesn't look like this. (Btw, titled CC players are not so keen on Modern Benoni, too.)
Here some CC games where white know what to do (in this exact variation):

  
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #4 - 07/14/14 at 10:29:26
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ErictheRed wrote on 07/13/14 at 23:05:24:
If 4.Nf3 you'll need to be comfortable with 4...cd 5.Nxd4 d5!, i.e. 6.Bg2 e5 and 7...d4 coming wherever White puts his knight.  This line has always turned me off of 4.Nf3 (though I've played it from time to time).


That is exactly what put me a bit off too. It might not be as bad as it looks, but I really don't think it promises white any advantage.

In the Fianchetto 4.d5 mainline, it seems that black gets more than satisfactory play for the piece sac. Even in Avrukh's lines, black seems fine. Now if we count the improvements, black might even be a tiny bit better (according to the engine.).

To me it seems that black has plenty of lines to equality. I find it a little bit strange that so few people play the MB at top level.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #3 - 07/14/14 at 10:18:17
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RoleyPoley wrote on 07/13/14 at 22:47:59:
Why do you think the Modern Benoni is "Rightly Dubious"? I thought the main difficulties for black were in the Taimanov/flicknife variation, but he was fine in the other lines?




I think that quite a few lines are problematic, e.g. The Modern Main Line. The reason I think that the MB is slightly dubious is:
1. Very few top players play it, even against the Fianchetto system.
2. It has a dubious reputation.
3. I (and I don't think I am only one) thinks that it is very questionable when it comes to positional factors.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #2 - 07/13/14 at 23:05:24
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If 4.Nf3 you'll need to be comfortable with 4...cd 5.Nxd4 d5!, i.e. 6.Bg2 e5 and 7...d4 coming wherever White puts his knight.  This line has always turned me off of 4.Nf3 (though I've played it from time to time).
  
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Re: Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
Reply #1 - 07/13/14 at 22:47:59
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TheDragon wrote on 07/11/14 at 19:00:12:
Hello.

I am currently enjoying playing the Catalan. I am following Avrukh's brilliant 1.d4 repertoire. I feel that my repertoire is pretty solid, but I have one nagging issue.

I play 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 and now the problem is 3...c5!?, which I am not very comfortable with. The Modern Benoni is rightly dubious, but I am not entirely comfortable about the Fianchetto variation. I obviously started looking at Avrukh's suggestion, but even then it seems that black is totally fine. 'Chess Developments: The Modern Benoni' and 'GM Repertoire: Modern Benoni' seem to confirm this.

The Fianchetto MB scores well for black, 53% for white according to my database.

So I have also started looking at 4.Nf3. But the lines still don't seem very satisfactory.

I have also looked for a guide in the top players, but few players play the Modern Benoni and the few that do, don't go into the Fianchetto variation.

So I really don't know: Do I go into the Modern Benoni with 4.d5, or try and avoid it with 4.Nf3.

Which one gets closer to an opening advantage? Which is easier to play and learn? Which one should I choose overall?

I really hope that someone has some answers, because I only have questions  GrinWink

If possible, after casting your vote, would it be possible for you to mention some resources to learn the line? I mean books, videos, articles, games etc.

Thanks a lot!

Regards, TheDragon.


Why do you think the Modern Benoni is "Rightly Dubious"? I thought the main difficulties for black were in the Taimanov/flicknife variation, but he was fine in the other lines?


  

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Fianchetto Modern Benoni: 4.Nf3 vs 4.d5 vs. other
07/11/14 at 19:00:12
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Hello.

I am currently enjoying playing the Catalan. I am following Avrukh's brilliant 1.d4 repertoire. I feel that my repertoire is pretty solid, but I have one nagging issue.

I play 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 and now the problem is 3...c5!?, which I am not very comfortable with. The Modern Benoni is rightly dubious, but I am not entirely comfortable about the Fianchetto variation. I obviously started looking at Avrukh's suggestion, but even then it seems that black is totally fine. 'Chess Developments: The Modern Benoni' and 'GM Repertoire: Modern Benoni' seem to confirm this.

The Fianchetto MB scores well for black, 53% for white according to my database.

So I have also started looking at 4.Nf3. But the lines still don't seem very satisfactory.

I have also looked for a guide in the top players, but few players play the Modern Benoni and the few that do, don't go into the Fianchetto variation.

So I really don't know: Do I go into the Modern Benoni with 4.d5, or try and avoid it with 4.Nf3.

Which one gets closer to an opening advantage? Which is easier to play and learn? Which one should I choose overall?

I really hope that someone has some answers, because I only have questions  GrinWink

If possible, after casting your vote, would it be possible for you to mention some resources to learn the line? I mean books, videos, articles, games etc.

Thanks a lot!

Regards, TheDragon.
  
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