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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move (Read 23235 times)
fling
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Re: Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
Reply #8 - 08/04/14 at 15:58:24
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RdC wrote on 08/04/14 at 14:10:00:
hicetnunc wrote on 08/04/14 at 13:38:57:
The main splitting points are where you develop your bishop (Bb2 or Bf4) and your Knight (Nd2 or Nc3).


Another one is whether you are intending to play e4. Usually that involves Nd2 and then Rd1 either before or after e4. Black doesn't have to take on e4 as being pushed back by e4-e5 may not be so bad.


Well, Bf4 does support some tactics later on, and is the recommendation in Wojo 1 and mentioned by Bologan as an interesting try. Even though it is usually reached following the bishop check on b4, in this exact position 8. Bf4 will transpose to one of Avrukh's lines. But I think the verdict is that White won't get an advantage with best play after that (there are e.g. some games by Tiviakov that look ok for Black).

After 8. Rd1 Ne4 9. b3 f5 10. Ba3, White gets to exchange the dark-squared bishops, true, but I am not sure Black is worse. The rook has nothing to do on d1 in this structure. I have played the line as White, but after 10 ...Bxa3 11. Nxa3, IIRC, Black will manage to play either ....c5 or ...e5 before White can get the knight back into play.

I fully agree that the knight should be on c3 in many cases, the tactics often work in White's favour. In this particular position, Avrukh recommends 8. Nbd2 (p. 188 in GM1), although as mentioned, by transposition, Avrukh also gives 8. Bf4 by transposition (p. 157 in GM1).

And as we both have mentioned, 8. Nbd2 means a totally different type of strategy, as White is committed to playing 9. e4 if he wants to achieve an advantage.
  
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hicetnunc
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Re: Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
Reply #7 - 08/04/14 at 15:02:23
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RdC wrote on 08/04/14 at 14:10:00:
hicetnunc wrote on 08/04/14 at 13:38:57:
The main splitting points are where you develop your bishop (Bb2 or Bf4) and your Knight (Nd2 or Nc3).


Another one is whether you are intending to play e4. Usually that involves Nd2 and then Rd1 either before or after e4. Black doesn't have to take on e4 as being pushed back by e4-e5 may not be so bad.


Isn't e4 always an idea for white ? I mean, is there a plan without e4 at some stage ?
  

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RdC
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Re: Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
Reply #6 - 08/04/14 at 14:10:00
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hicetnunc wrote on 08/04/14 at 13:38:57:
The main splitting points are where you develop your bishop (Bb2 or Bf4) and your Knight (Nd2 or Nc3).


Another one is whether you are intending to play e4. Usually that involves Nd2 and then Rd1 either before or after e4. Black doesn't have to take on e4 as being pushed back by e4-e5 may not be so bad.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
Reply #5 - 08/04/14 at 14:09:41
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In my opinion, 8.Bf4?! makes no sense in this exact position.

8.Rd1 and 8.b3 are both useful waiting moves.  White wants to see where the c8-bishop develops before developing his knight.  In particular if it goes to b7 the knight really wants to be on c3.

8.Nbd2 prevents 8...Ne4 and just gets on with pushing e2-e4 as rapidly as possible, leading to a different kind of position with the pawn on e5.
  
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hicetnunc
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Re: Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
Reply #4 - 08/04/14 at 13:38:57
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The main splitting points are where you develop your bishop (Bb2 or Bf4) and your Knight (Nd2 or Nc3).

The most passive options among those are probably the most solid as well...  Wink
  

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gauss
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Re: Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
Reply #3 - 08/04/14 at 13:15:11
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8.Nbd2 is best, but that means you have to have different against 4...Bb4+ and 5...Be7.
  
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fling
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Re: Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
Reply #2 - 08/04/14 at 11:11:06
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I'd say that Rd1 and Bf4 tend to transpose (unless Black plays 8. Bf4 Ne4, after which Rd1 is not really meaningful). However, b3 and Nbd2 means potentially playing a slightly different plan, i.e. going for a direct e4.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
Reply #1 - 08/04/14 at 08:30:57
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On average I bet they all tend to transpose around move 15 or so Smiley
  
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Marc Benford
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Closed Catalan: Main Line - White's 8th move
08/03/14 at 22:43:28
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Hello.

In the Main Line of the Closed Catalan, after 1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. g3 Be7 5. Bg2 O-O 6. O-O c6 7. Qc2 Nbd7



I am hesitating between these four moves:
- 8. Rd1
- 8. b3
- 8. Bf4
- 8. Nbd2

Could you explain what are all the differences between these four moves? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each one of them?

And most importantly: which one of them tends on average to lead to the positions which are the most solid, positional, slow, closed, quiet and strategic? (the least sharp/tactical positions)?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
  
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