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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars (Read 30282 times)
VGA
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #41 - 03/14/18 at 18:28:01
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1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d3 Na5
losing the bishop pair and getting doubled pawns

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Bd3 dxe4 7. Bxe4 Bd6
very annoying, easily equalises

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. f4 Nxe4 
...


Stuff like these mean that the opening moves
1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4
are something I will never play. After e4 the two other moves are just inaccurate.
  
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Straggler
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #40 - 07/21/17 at 22:03:49
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I'd be happy with the queenless middle game after 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Qh5 Nd6 5.Qxe5+ Qe7 6.Qxe7+ Bxe7 7.Bb3 if White did have the slight edge that the authors promise. But it has been pointed out on another forum* that after 7...Nf5 8.Nf3 c6 9.0-0 d5 10.Re1 (intending d3 rather than d4) the authors don't mention 10...Na6 -- although it was once played by Rubinstein, and seems to scupper the authors' plan, since 11.Ne2 Nc5 wins the bishop pair. Is this as big a hole in the repertoire as it seems to be?

*by someone who I think is a member here, but I'm not certain so I won't name him.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #39 - 07/08/16 at 19:34:40
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Yes, it's really disappointing that after 2...Nf6 black has an easy game after the move 3.Bc4 with the simple 5...Be7. However, Caruana played it recently. I wonder what he had in mind...
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #38 - 11/21/15 at 22:36:17
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Well, take a game a like this . I cant see any obvious mistakes. I think this is nothing for white and certainly not an opening to have as your main weapon...



GG
« Last Edit: 11/22/15 at 10:04:28 by Gut Gambit »  
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dfan
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #37 - 09/27/15 at 14:10:14
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AlienOctopus wrote on 08/29/15 at 18:07:03:
On my copy the text was backwards on the spine, so when on a bookshelf it looks as if the book is upside down. I don't care about that though.

That's not a mistake, it's the (continental) European style.
  
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AlienOctopus
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #36 - 09/24/15 at 17:41:45
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They also cite the move 5...Be7 (mentioned by Gut Gambit above) as a reason for going with 5.Qxe5+ instead of 5.Bb3 Also I believe it's a more practical choice, for one thing, 3...Nxe4 isn't the most common move to begin with. 3...Nc6 and 3...Bc5 are much more likely, and anyone who plays 3...Nxe4 will undoubtedly be prepared for the sharp Frankenstein-Dracula variation. Why should we similarly prepare for a move that's really not all that common? And especially when they can go 5...Be7 on top of it and avoid the whole thing if they wish.

A benefit of 5.Qxe5 as I see it, is like with the Vienna itself, we're forcing the game into the path of our choosing, not giving Black the choice. Endgames like that are full of mini-traps too, it's easy for people to make inaccuracies. Probably if you prepare and analyze that endgame even 25% of what you'd need to prepare for in the Dracula-Frankenstein variation your results would be extremely good.

I also think it fits the idea of what Ovetchkin and Soloviov were trying to do with this opening. When I ordered this book I did so because they described the Modern Vienna as an opening where White could often play aggressively and sacrifice material, but that positional considerations would come first so that White could be on the safe side and play soundly. This is exactly what I wanted in an opening and it's exactly what they delivered.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #35 - 09/22/15 at 12:58:35
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I can see the problem with Qh5 and Qxe5 if all you're looking for in the book is fun lines, but if White actually has chances for a slight advantage with this, the authors are right to choose it.

Getting any kind of advantage with the Vienna should be considered quite an achievement! Wink

Last time I looked at the real Frankenstein-Dracula (around a decade ago) there were some high-profile wins by Black in CC. And these positions look terribly difficult to play, especially for White. Has anything happened to change that view?
  

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AlienOctopus
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #34 - 09/22/15 at 00:15:33
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They write that in the Frankenstein-Dracula variation White completely gives up the center to Black. GM Ulf Andersson prefers the endgame, and I found the position quite comfortable the one time I went into it.

If the endgame isn't to your taste, that's no reason to discard the entire book. That's just one variation and there's so much more material in here.

I won yet another fun attacking game against my computer using a line from this book since last time I posted. The variation this time was this 1.e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d3 Bc5 5.f4 d6 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.Na4 Bxf3 8.Qxf3 Nd4 9.Qd1 b5 10.Bxf7+ Kxf7 11.Nxc5 dxc5 12.fxe5 Nd7 13.0-0+ Kg8

I don't know about you, but I prefer positions like this where I give up a little material in order to get such central control instead of vice versa. Ultimately the game was decided by one of my passed central pawns.

I have my engine set at my same strength by the way, in fact as of yesterday we're exactly tied at 58-26-58. In the subset of games where I was able to play the Vienna however, I have a huge plus score against it. Out of like 15 games it's beaten me twice, the rest have been mostly wins with some draws sprinkled in. Absolutely love this opening, a big reason why I play 1.e4.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #33 - 09/18/15 at 22:07:35
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I recall Emms and Soltis choosing (in repertoire books) the 2. Bc4 route.
Once upon a time ECO and NCO thought that 2...Nf6 3. d3 c6 4. Nf3 d5 5. Bb3 should lead to +=, and that 4...Be7 is preferable.  I have the impression that nobody thinks so these days.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #32 - 09/18/15 at 21:12:53
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In my view it would have made more sense to use the 2.Bc4 move order for this kind of repertoire, precisely because of this 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 variation which isn't only equal but the sort of equality where Black's position is very safe and his correct moves are quite obvious. After 2.Bc4 Nc6 you can always play 3.Nc3 to transpose back to the Vienna, though 3.d3 keeps the opponent guessing for one more move whether you're transpose to the Modern Italian with 4.Nf3 next.

Probably the reasons the authors didn't go for this is 2...Nf6 3.d3 c6 which is probably the best independent line, but at least you get a real game after 4.Nf3 d5 5.Bb3 where there are real chances for an unprepared player to go wrong as Black, for instance the most common move is 5...Bd6 which is not the strongest.
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #31 - 09/18/15 at 13:29:57
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Anyone expecting coverage of the legendary Frankenstein - Dracula variation will be severely disappointed, as was I, in this book.  The authors actually recommend the "safe" but insipid line 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Qh5 Nd6 5.Qxe5+.  Yes, White may have the very slightly easier game in the ending that follows, but seriously? this is what you are going to recommend?

The annoying thing is that you cannot discover this from reading the table of contents:
https://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Images/Pdfs/7493.pdf

I almost returned my copy.  Very disappointing.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #30 - 09/16/15 at 18:48:50
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So its a great book.

But what about the variation : 1.e4-e5 2.Nc3-Nf6 3.Bc4-Nxe4...? Can you please tell what they propose against this? Following: 4.Qh5-Nd6 5.Bb3-and now the move: 5...Be7, as mentioned before in this thread, seems to fizzle out to a complete even game. Or isnt this the case?

GG

  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #29 - 09/06/15 at 04:19:35
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Give in to the temptation JEH, it's a great book, one of the finest opening books I've read. Playing the Modern Vienna with Ovetchkin and Soloviov as your guides, you may never feel the need to return to the Ruy Lopez.

By the way, I don't own stock in Chess Stars or anything, I praise this book so highly because I really am that pleased with it.

They mention in the preface that they're planning a second book about how to use the Modern Vienna against the Alekhine Defense, which will include coverage of this variation:
1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e5 Nfd7 and now the pawn cracker sacrifice 4.e6. I'm very much looking forward to this book coming out.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #28 - 09/04/15 at 13:51:20
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ArKheiN wrote on 08/07/14 at 21:10:44:
the book gives the Dracula-Frankenstein


Or is it the Frankenstein-Dracula? Trying to remember that old BCM article where Dracula played a series of monster opponents (the Mummy and the Wolfman was it?), who played increasingly better lines until the final clash with Frankenstein. Can't remember if Dracula was White or Black, it may have been more thematic for him to be the latter  Smiley

Curses, I must resist the temptation to buy this book in another of my ooh squirrel moments, and get back to learning the Lopez  Roll Eyes
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #27 - 08/31/15 at 18:13:29
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AlienOctopus wrote on 08/30/15 at 05:11:07:
The first 200 pages of the book cover variations where Black plays Nf6 and Nc6.

Why is Black equal there? Surely White must have a slight edge


Not after 4 d3 Na5. But as you say...

AlienOctopus wrote on 08/30/15 at 05:11:07:
Frankly, I don't care if it is equal either. It's well known that in practical games people do better having an equal position that they know well vs having a slight advantage in a position they're not as familiar with.


Quite so Smiley
  

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