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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars (Read 48251 times)
an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #42 - 03/24/23 at 22:13:22
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1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Qh5 Nd6 5.Qxe5+
I had a couple of games this past weekend, it's not such a bad choice in a team event. One of my opponents played a plan not covered by Ovetchkin/Soloviov.
5...Qe7 6.Qxe7+ Bxe7 7.Bb3 Nf5 8.Nf3 c6 9.O-O d5 10.d4
(10.Re1 is their move order, but they don't consider 10...Nd7 at all. This could be even better than 10...Na6 mentioned by Straggler. It has the same incidental "threat" of ...Nc5, and takes the same number of tempi to reach the e6-square, but from f8 it also covers the g6-square.)
10...Nd7 11.Re1 Nf8 12.Ne2 Nd6 13.c3 f6
During the game I was thinking I wouldn't mind making black's moves.
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14.Ng3
(14.h3 I found one predecessor in the database with this ...Nb8-d7-f8 idea: Depasquale - Solomon, AUS ch Adelaide 2004 https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/2655009)
14...Kf7
(14...h5! is thematic, black only had this idea on move 15)
15.Bc2 Bd7
(15...h5 16.Nh4 is puzzling)
16.b3 Re8 17.a4 g6 18.Bd2
(18.c4! is sharper, in fact this was my idea behind 17.a4, but I was getting tired.)
18...Ne6 19.Bd3 Ng7 20.c4 Bg4 21.c5! Ndf5 22.Nxf5 Nxf5 23.h3
The game is briefly entertaining.
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23...Bxf3 24.Bxf5 gxf5 25.gxf3 Rhg8+ 26.Kf1 Rg6 27.Bf4?
Starting here, all my moves were bad.
(27.b4 was my other candidate, probably += but it should be a draw of course.)
27...Reg8 28.Reb1? Bf8! -+
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Honestly I never saw ...Be7-f8 coming. Here I woke up to the fact I was losing, but of course in a team event one plays until the bitter end. (0:1,43)
  

C27-10_Nd7.pgn ( 1 KB | 39 Downloads )
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VGA
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #41 - 03/14/18 at 18:28:01
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1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d3 Na5
losing the bishop pair and getting doubled pawns

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Bd3 dxe4 7. Bxe4 Bd6
very annoying, easily equalises

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. f4 Nxe4 
...


Stuff like these mean that the opening moves
1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4
are something I will never play. After e4 the two other moves are just inaccurate.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #40 - 07/21/17 at 22:03:49
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I'd be happy with the queenless middle game after 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Qh5 Nd6 5.Qxe5+ Qe7 6.Qxe7+ Bxe7 7.Bb3 if White did have the slight edge that the authors promise. But it has been pointed out on another forum* that after 7...Nf5 8.Nf3 c6 9.0-0 d5 10.Re1 (intending d3 rather than d4) the authors don't mention 10...Na6 -- although it was once played by Rubinstein, and seems to scupper the authors' plan, since 11.Ne2 Nc5 wins the bishop pair. Is this as big a hole in the repertoire as it seems to be?

*by someone who I think is a member here, but I'm not certain so I won't name him.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #39 - 07/08/16 at 19:34:40
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Yes, it's really disappointing that after 2...Nf6 black has an easy game after the move 3.Bc4 with the simple 5...Be7. However, Caruana played it recently. I wonder what he had in mind...
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #38 - 11/21/15 at 22:36:17
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Well, take a game a like this . I cant see any obvious mistakes. I think this is nothing for white and certainly not an opening to have as your main weapon...



GG
« Last Edit: 11/22/15 at 10:04:28 by Gut Gambit »  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #37 - 09/27/15 at 14:10:14
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AlienOctopus wrote on 08/29/15 at 18:07:03:
On my copy the text was backwards on the spine, so when on a bookshelf it looks as if the book is upside down. I don't care about that though.

That's not a mistake, it's the (continental) European style.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #36 - 09/24/15 at 17:41:45
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They also cite the move 5...Be7 (mentioned by Gut Gambit above) as a reason for going with 5.Qxe5+ instead of 5.Bb3 Also I believe it's a more practical choice, for one thing, 3...Nxe4 isn't the most common move to begin with. 3...Nc6 and 3...Bc5 are much more likely, and anyone who plays 3...Nxe4 will undoubtedly be prepared for the sharp Frankenstein-Dracula variation. Why should we similarly prepare for a move that's really not all that common? And especially when they can go 5...Be7 on top of it and avoid the whole thing if they wish.

A benefit of 5.Qxe5 as I see it, is like with the Vienna itself, we're forcing the game into the path of our choosing, not giving Black the choice. Endgames like that are full of mini-traps too, it's easy for people to make inaccuracies. Probably if you prepare and analyze that endgame even 25% of what you'd need to prepare for in the Dracula-Frankenstein variation your results would be extremely good.

I also think it fits the idea of what Ovetchkin and Soloviov were trying to do with this opening. When I ordered this book I did so because they described the Modern Vienna as an opening where White could often play aggressively and sacrifice material, but that positional considerations would come first so that White could be on the safe side and play soundly. This is exactly what I wanted in an opening and it's exactly what they delivered.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #35 - 09/22/15 at 12:58:35
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I can see the problem with Qh5 and Qxe5 if all you're looking for in the book is fun lines, but if White actually has chances for a slight advantage with this, the authors are right to choose it.

Getting any kind of advantage with the Vienna should be considered quite an achievement! Wink

Last time I looked at the real Frankenstein-Dracula (around a decade ago) there were some high-profile wins by Black in CC. And these positions look terribly difficult to play, especially for White. Has anything happened to change that view?
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #34 - 09/22/15 at 00:15:33
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They write that in the Frankenstein-Dracula variation White completely gives up the center to Black. GM Ulf Andersson prefers the endgame, and I found the position quite comfortable the one time I went into it.

If the endgame isn't to your taste, that's no reason to discard the entire book. That's just one variation and there's so much more material in here.

I won yet another fun attacking game against my computer using a line from this book since last time I posted. The variation this time was this 1.e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d3 Bc5 5.f4 d6 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.Na4 Bxf3 8.Qxf3 Nd4 9.Qd1 b5 10.Bxf7+ Kxf7 11.Nxc5 dxc5 12.fxe5 Nd7 13.0-0+ Kg8

I don't know about you, but I prefer positions like this where I give up a little material in order to get such central control instead of vice versa. Ultimately the game was decided by one of my passed central pawns.

I have my engine set at my same strength by the way, in fact as of yesterday we're exactly tied at 58-26-58. In the subset of games where I was able to play the Vienna however, I have a huge plus score against it. Out of like 15 games it's beaten me twice, the rest have been mostly wins with some draws sprinkled in. Absolutely love this opening, a big reason why I play 1.e4.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #33 - 09/18/15 at 22:07:35
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I recall Emms and Soltis choosing (in repertoire books) the 2. Bc4 route.
Once upon a time ECO and NCO thought that 2...Nf6 3. d3 c6 4. Nf3 d5 5. Bb3 should lead to +=, and that 4...Be7 is preferable.  I have the impression that nobody thinks so these days.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #32 - 09/18/15 at 21:12:53
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In my view it would have made more sense to use the 2.Bc4 move order for this kind of repertoire, precisely because of this 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 variation which isn't only equal but the sort of equality where Black's position is very safe and his correct moves are quite obvious. After 2.Bc4 Nc6 you can always play 3.Nc3 to transpose back to the Vienna, though 3.d3 keeps the opponent guessing for one more move whether you're transpose to the Modern Italian with 4.Nf3 next.

Probably the reasons the authors didn't go for this is 2...Nf6 3.d3 c6 which is probably the best independent line, but at least you get a real game after 4.Nf3 d5 5.Bb3 where there are real chances for an unprepared player to go wrong as Black, for instance the most common move is 5...Bd6 which is not the strongest.
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #31 - 09/18/15 at 13:29:57
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Anyone expecting coverage of the legendary Frankenstein - Dracula variation will be severely disappointed, as was I, in this book.  The authors actually recommend the "safe" but insipid line 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Qh5 Nd6 5.Qxe5+.  Yes, White may have the very slightly easier game in the ending that follows, but seriously? this is what you are going to recommend?

The annoying thing is that you cannot discover this from reading the table of contents:
https://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Images/Pdfs/7493.pdf

I almost returned my copy.  Very disappointing.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #30 - 09/16/15 at 18:48:50
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So its a great book.

But what about the variation : 1.e4-e5 2.Nc3-Nf6 3.Bc4-Nxe4...? Can you please tell what they propose against this? Following: 4.Qh5-Nd6 5.Bb3-and now the move: 5...Be7, as mentioned before in this thread, seems to fizzle out to a complete even game. Or isnt this the case?

GG

  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #29 - 09/06/15 at 04:19:35
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Give in to the temptation JEH, it's a great book, one of the finest opening books I've read. Playing the Modern Vienna with Ovetchkin and Soloviov as your guides, you may never feel the need to return to the Ruy Lopez.

By the way, I don't own stock in Chess Stars or anything, I praise this book so highly because I really am that pleased with it.

They mention in the preface that they're planning a second book about how to use the Modern Vienna against the Alekhine Defense, which will include coverage of this variation:
1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e5 Nfd7 and now the pawn cracker sacrifice 4.e6. I'm very much looking forward to this book coming out.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #28 - 09/04/15 at 13:51:20
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ArKheiN wrote on 08/07/14 at 21:10:44:
the book gives the Dracula-Frankenstein


Or is it the Frankenstein-Dracula? Trying to remember that old BCM article where Dracula played a series of monster opponents (the Mummy and the Wolfman was it?), who played increasingly better lines until the final clash with Frankenstein. Can't remember if Dracula was White or Black, it may have been more thematic for him to be the latter  Smiley

Curses, I must resist the temptation to buy this book in another of my ooh squirrel moments, and get back to learning the Lopez  Roll Eyes
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #27 - 08/31/15 at 18:13:29
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AlienOctopus wrote on 08/30/15 at 05:11:07:
The first 200 pages of the book cover variations where Black plays Nf6 and Nc6.

Why is Black equal there? Surely White must have a slight edge


Not after 4 d3 Na5. But as you say...

AlienOctopus wrote on 08/30/15 at 05:11:07:
Frankly, I don't care if it is equal either. It's well known that in practical games people do better having an equal position that they know well vs having a slight advantage in a position they're not as familiar with.


Quite so Smiley
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #26 - 08/30/15 at 05:34:43
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Surely the traditional/mainstream view is that 3. Bc4 Nc6 should be equal in the best-play lines?  In the realm of opening-advocacy books, I'm reminded of Emms vs. Emms. One pays one's money, one takes one's chances.  Something like that.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #25 - 08/30/15 at 05:11:07
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The first 200 pages of the book cover variations where Black plays Nf6 and Nc6.

Why is Black equal there? Surely White must have a slight edge, and I don't 100% trust what computer engines say anymore if one even says it's equal.

Frankly, I don't care if it is equal either. It's well known that in practical games people do better having an equal position that they know well vs having a slight advantage in a position they're not as familiar with. By playing the Vienna we bring the game into positions of our choosing, no more Petroffs, pet lines to the Ruy Lopez, or  Italian games that everyone plays since they were a kid to worry about anymore. I greatly enjoy playing the Vienna, the set-up that Soloviov and Ovetchkin recommend in the book makes perfect sense to me. I finally look forward to facing 1...e5 because of this, and the book is great. It really does have the perfect mixture of text and notation, and the comments are very insightful. This book is a melding of state-of-the-art computer engine analysis and Soloviov and Ovetchkins' lifetimes of chess experience.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #24 - 08/30/15 at 04:18:19
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AlienOctopus wrote on 08/29/15 at 18:07:03:
The variation was this: 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.f4 d5 5.exd5 Ng4


But this is meaningless. Everyone agrees that after 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 the best move is 3...Nc6. Black is at least equal there.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #23 - 08/29/15 at 18:07:03
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I just got this book in the mail yesterday, absolutely excellent, I love it. The book contains a good mixture of analysis and textual commentary. It's not one of those books that's just pure algebraic notation, nor is it one where the notation is skimped on in favor of text. The comments point out relevant features of the positions, and are clear and accurate. The book is 428 pages, but also trade paperback sized, so it's easy to hold in your hands and read through. On my copy the text was backwards on the spine, so when on a bookshelf it looks as if the book is upside down. I don't care about that though.

I played a fantastic attacking game against my computer (not set at full strength) using one of their recommended lines this morning. The variation was this: 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.f4 d5 5.exd5 Ng4 here the book comments "Black loses too much time in order to capture the enemy rook on h1 and will come under attack as a result of that" I was initially nervous about this but that's exactly what happened in the game. And further on the comment "What's powerful pawn center more than compensates for the sacrificed exchange", as the game played itself out I found that to be so true.

I also believe the lines they give are of a very high quality, and that state of the art engines combined with IM Soloviov and GM Ovetschkin's chess knowledge were used. For example, after the above 5...Ng4 Rybka 4 calls the book's recommended move 6.Nf3! a mistake, wanting instead to play Ne4 to protect the f2 square. However, Rybka gradually changes its mind more and more the further you go into the book's variation, and I certainly enjoyed the position I got after this move. So in actually 6.Nf3! seems deserving of the exclam given by the authors and they've used some strong analysis tools for this book.

I'm looking forward to exploring this book more and adopting the Modern Vienna as my primary opening against 1...e5.

I got my copy on sale for $17 from ChessCafe by the way.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #22 - 02/11/15 at 22:08:21
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Anybody bought and study some parts of the book  yet..?
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #21 - 12/29/14 at 00:46:11
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fling wrote on 12/28/14 at 16:46:50:
HgMan wrote on 12/28/14 at 13:43:04:
iOS vs. Android? I'm working with the former, and the website says something about the Apple folk returning to work...


I see, I am using Android. Didn't know the titles were released differently on the different platforms. Or is it just because the people at Apple have to approve of everything that is to be used by iOS?

I don't know. Either way, I'm looking forward t seeing the book!
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #20 - 12/28/14 at 16:46:50
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HgMan wrote on 12/28/14 at 13:43:04:
iOS vs. Android? I'm working with the former, and the website says something about the Apple folk returning to work...


I see, I am using Android. Didn't know the titles were released differently on the different platforms. Or is it just because the people at Apple have to approve of everything that is to be used by iOS?
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #19 - 12/28/14 at 16:45:40
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Yes, it covers 3 ...f5; the main variation ends in move 11 with a +=.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #18 - 12/28/14 at 16:30:08
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does it cover 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 Bc4 f5 - ?  Smiley
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #17 - 12/28/14 at 13:43:04
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iOS vs. Android? I'm working with the former, and the website says something about the Apple folk returning to work...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #16 - 12/28/14 at 13:30:05
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That is weird. I just decided to buy it, and it worked fine. I can see in the bibliography that they have checked Beating the Open Games, The Petroff, The Open Games for Black, The King's Gambit and Bologan's Black Weapons. In other words, the major works recently. There is no mentioning of Or Cohen's recent book, although I haven't checked it to see the recommendations for Black.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #15 - 12/28/14 at 13:07:11
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fling wrote on 12/28/14 at 09:12:47:
HgMan wrote on 12/27/14 at 19:32:38:
As a quick aside: I'm not seeing this book in Forward Chess. Does availability vary by country?


I can see it both under Chess stars, and Complete list. I still haven't decided on whether to buy it or not...


No, I cannot see either. Even  deleted and reinstalled to check.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #14 - 12/28/14 at 09:12:47
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HgMan wrote on 12/27/14 at 19:32:38:
As a quick aside: I'm not seeing this book in Forward Chess. Does availability vary by country?


I can see it both under Chess stars, and Complete list. I still haven't decided on whether to buy it or not...
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #13 - 12/27/14 at 23:31:38
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I received an email from Semko Semkov saying they were simply waiting for the print house to reopen after the holiday.
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #12 - 12/27/14 at 22:10:39
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The official website says it will be published the 12th of january. First they said november, then december, and now january.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #11 - 12/27/14 at 19:32:38
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fling wrote on 12/26/14 at 07:25:05:
I now see the book in Forward Chess. I might buy the book, because I am thinking of taking up 1 e4 e5 from both sides. The recommendation after 1 e4 e5 2 Nc3 Nf6 3 Bc4 Bc5 is 4. f4!?. I didn't think White had anything in that variation either, but I guess we'll see what new ideas they bring to the table. Has anybody bought the book yet?


As a quick aside: I'm not seeing this book in Forward Chess. Does availability vary by country?
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #10 - 12/27/14 at 01:28:32
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I'm waiting for the print version, due in the new year. I suspect there are ample resources to be mined in the transposition to the King's Gambit Declined after 4.f4.
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #9 - 12/26/14 at 07:25:05
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I now see the book in Forward Chess. I might buy the book, because I am thinking of taking up 1 e4 e5 from both sides. The recommendation after 1 e4 e5 2 Nc3 Nf6 3 Bc4 Bc5 is 4. f4!?. I didn't think White had anything in that variation either, but I guess we'll see what new ideas they bring to the table. Has anybody bought the book yet?
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #8 - 10/30/14 at 21:31:24
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After 5...Be7 you can either sign a peace treaty and avoid playing the Vienna next time, or go on moving your pieces back and forth until your opponent blunders something.
You should not expect a real opening advantage if two out of your first three moves are inaccurate!
Recently Caruana tried that stuff against Giri, and got a pretty good advantage- but that because Giri badly mixed two different plans. The game went 6.Qxe5 0-0 7.d4 and now instead of 6...Nc6 (forcing the queen to leave e5 isn't such a great achievement, she would do that voluntarily!) I think best is 6...b5! which is an excellent waiting move: If white plays Ng1-f3, only then the plan ...Nc6-a5 works, since the bishop does not have the f3 square- while 7.Nge2 can be met by 7...Nc6 8.Qf4 b4! 9.Nd5 a5, and I would gladly pick Black anytime. I don't know, maybe 8.Qf4 is not best, but the whole white opening concept seems very superficial.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #7 - 10/19/14 at 22:00:56
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Benoniac wrote on 10/19/14 at 20:09:11:
Hi again.

Can you remember to have been up against the variation:

1.e4-e5 2.Nc3-Nf6 3.Bc4-Nxe4(!)...? Following: 4.Qh5-Nd6 5.Bb3-and now the move: 5...Be7, which PANFR suggested in antoher thread:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?
num=1412187480/6#6

What on earth to play against this variation? I`m fairly sure that black is at least ok here, if not more...

Ben



This is a good try for Black. Again, as in the other thread, all the current Vienna books are hopelessly wrong in the assessments.

White should try 6.Qxe5 as Caruana did recently against Giri. After that we are just beginning.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #6 - 10/19/14 at 20:09:11
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ArKheiN wrote on 08/07/14 at 21:10:44:
Unfortunately I have lost much of my analysis and notes on the Vienna after a computer'crash. So I will try to respond despite that.


Hi again.

Can you remember to have been up against the variation:

1.e4-e5 2.Nc3-Nf6 3.Bc4-Nxe4(!)...? Following: 4.Qh5-Nd6 5.Bb3-and now the move: 5...Be7, which PANFR suggested in antoher thread:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?
num=1412187480/6#6

What on earth to play against this variation? I`m fairly sure that black is at least ok here, if not more...

Ben

  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #5 - 08/07/14 at 21:30:48
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ArKheiN wrote on 08/07/14 at 21:10:44:
The Modern Vienna, I don't see anything modern here, it seems that the book is giving the traditionnal (and romantic) way of playing the Vienna (the g3 Vienna seems more "modern", but the book gives the Dracula-Frankenstein, the King's gambit declined with 2..Bc5 by transposition, the reversed Schliemann, etc), but I like the romantic way!

Unfortunately I have lost much of my analysis and notes on the Vienna after a computer'crash. So I will try to respond despite that.

I remember having been inspired by Mitkov and Mirumian's games. In the line you give, Mirumian played 8.Ne4 a few time while Mitkov prefered 8.Bxe4 Bxe4 9.f4. I liked both but I have got a preference for Mitkov's plan and this is one of the line I always wanted to play as White in the Vienna, for example after 9..0-0 10.f5 f6 11.Ng3, the position should be objectively equal, but I like the human's play, with clear plans in the kingside. The attack is quite slow and if Black's play is good the mate isn't here, but if you play good you are not worse too. So for GM this is not very satisfactory, but at amateur's play, or at master play as surprise weapon, it can be crushing. For me 5..Bb4 is far from taking the fun away for white, but 5..Na5 is or was supposed to be more disgusting for White. Here too White should be ok but the play is more positionnal and less fun. And I should add that 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6(!) 3.Bc4 Bb4 (! ->this one from my feeling as an "old" Vienna player and Schliemann's lover), where White is playing a reversed Schliemann (Jaenisch) defense of the Ruy Lopez, with a Bishop already on c4 (so it could be seen as an improved Schliemann but for tactical reason that's not the case..), but I really like Black even if here too, White should be ok.

In conclusion, I think the Vienna is perfectly playable at all level, but at master level it should work only as a surprise now, but to fight for an advantage it can't be recommanded. But for amateurs and improving players I don't see problem for White!



Thx a lot for posting your reflections and opinions! Im an amateur  indeed. So I guess I will buy this book.

Btw: i guess the title "modern" goes with the move 3.Bc4 and not the older 3.f4. And I agree with you that the romantic way is not totally dead  Smiley

Thanks again.

Ben
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #4 - 08/07/14 at 21:11:53
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kylemeister wrote on 08/07/14 at 20:47:50:
You could do an Emms-vs.-Emms thing by looking at Attacking with 1. e4 ...


Hehe; Thanks!

I actually got both books. And so, maybe the book  by Chess-Stars will recommend 8.Ne4!?. Or also maybe 8.Bb5 which I`ve seen been played.

I would love to make the more natural looking 8.Ne4 work since  8.Bxd5 really seems out of buisiness. But im not so sure...

The book is released in august, according to the CS-site. 

@tonyRo

Safe bet!  Wink

Ben
  

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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #3 - 08/07/14 at 21:10:44
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The Modern Vienna, I don't see anything modern here, it seems that the book is giving the traditionnal (and romantic) way of playing the Vienna (the g3 Vienna seems more "modern", but the book gives the Dracula-Frankenstein, the King's gambit declined with 2..Bc5 by transposition, the reversed Schliemann, etc), but I like the romantic way!

Unfortunately I have lost much of my analysis and notes on the Vienna after a computer'crash. So I will try to respond despite that.

I remember having been inspired by Mitkov and Mirumian's games. In the line you give, Mirumian played 8.Ne4 a few time while Mitkov prefered 8.Bxe4 Bxe4 9.f4. I liked both but I have got a preference for Mitkov's plan and this is one of the line I always wanted to play as White in the Vienna, for example after 9..0-0 10.f5 f6 11.Ng3, the position should be objectively equal, but I like the human's play, with clear plans in the kingside. The attack is quite slow and if Black's play is good the mate isn't here, but if you play good you are not worse too. So for GM this is not very satisfactory, but at amateur's play, or at master play as surprise weapon, it can be crushing. For me 5..Bb4 is far from taking the fun away for white, but 5..Na5 is or was supposed to be more disgusting for White. Here too White should be ok but the play is more positionnal and less fun. And I should add that 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6(!) 3.Bc4 Bb4 (! ->this one from my feeling as an "old" Vienna player and Schliemann's lover), where White is playing a reversed Schliemann (Jaenisch) defense of the Ruy Lopez, with a Bishop already on c4 (so it could be seen as an improved Schliemann but for tactical reason that's not the case..), but I really like Black even if here too, White should be ok.

In conclusion, I think the Vienna is perfectly playable at all level, but at master level it should work only as a surprise now, but to fight for an advantage it can't be recommanded. But for amateurs and improving players I don't see problem for White!
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #2 - 08/07/14 at 21:03:36
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kylemeister wrote on 08/07/14 at 20:47:50:
You could do an Emms-vs.-Emms thing by looking at Attacking with 1. e4 ...


My money's on Emms.
  
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Re: The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
Reply #1 - 08/07/14 at 20:47:50
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You could do an Emms-vs.-Emms thing by looking at Attacking with 1. e4 ...
  
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The Modern Vienna, by Chess-stars
08/07/14 at 19:39:06
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Hi.

I cannot find a thread of this forthcoming book by Chess-stars:

"The Modern Vienna", by Roman Ovetchkin and Sergei Soloviov.

Link here:
http://chess-stars.com/resources/Vienna_contents.pdf


Im very curious about the line:



After: 7.0-0-Be6, Black seems to hold up (very) well. I`ve checked a little, but little me has found no new ideas for white here. So, does anyone know of something new worthwhile or at least a line that results in interesting play here? In my database black scores pretty good, so it will be interesting to see what the authours comes up with in this variation.


Ben 


  

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