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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) London System Question (Read 6655 times)
Anonymous3
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Re: London System Question
Reply #12 - 11/27/17 at 00:08:24
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Pcal wrote on 12/30/14 at 16:20:55:
I don't know about giving 7. h4 a "!"  that's seems pretty extravagant.

Maybe because the standard practice of
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Nf3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.Nbd2 Be7 7.h4!? Bd6?! 8.Ne5 (standard stuff)


Or just leave it and continue to develop (8. Bd3 etc ) if black takes on f4 (8...BxB) white has a vise on e5.

e4 isn't a weakness because white has f3. 

7.h4 does accelerate things though




Meeting ...Bd6 with Ne5 or leaving the B on f4 have been shown to be nothing for White here on chesspub and in various other London sources. The extra tempo h4 doesn't fundamentally change this here.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: London System Question
Reply #11 - 01/29/15 at 19:11:39
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Incidentally, this thread reminds me of a game from yesterday in a related system:  1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. e3 Nbd7 4. Nf3 c5 5. c3 e6 6. Nbd2 Be7 7. Bd3 O-O and now instead of ye olde 8. Ne5, Richard Rapport's 8. a4, followed by Qb1 and h4, resulted in a 19-move win against an IM.
  
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TN
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Re: London System Question
Reply #10 - 01/29/15 at 05:43:42
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The following game is quite relevant to the subject of h4 and ultimately I have to agree that ...Bd6 is the best move; after other moves White's attack is very strong. It would be interesting to see this covered in a CP update at some point; for now here are a few basic ideas.



« Last Edit: 01/29/15 at 13:05:05 by GMTonyKosten »  

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Pcal
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Re: London System Question
Reply #9 - 01/28/15 at 21:37:58
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fling wrote on 01/28/15 at 19:12:05:
In your last line, isn't 7...Bf5! the real killer of this line for White? At least I have learnt that this is the reason many London-players play the line with 2. Bf4, because it prevents just that move, since White can take the bishop and after that, d5 is hanging.


Yea  that too!  It's just bad for white in a couple of ways
 
Yet,  Must be something to London positions where the Qc1 is played. theory wise the posistion in equal but I don't like them. Kamsky and a few other very strong GM's have played into those position and have won.    I'm wondering if there isn't some hyper modern "bounce back" white gets after black's exhausted his development.  Maybe in Black's attempt at stifling white development  in the end only gives white targets to attack???  still I don't like them  (resulting positions)

also of note...
2. Bf4 doesn't prevent the ...Bf5. When I look at the theory on symmetrical  lines I find them very subtle and tricky and early c4 by white usually gives the edge to white.  I find positions in both the Caro Kan and Slave exchange interesting IMO with a lot of dynamics both tactical and positional .. People find them boring and stale, I don't.


  
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fling
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Re: London System Question
Reply #8 - 01/28/15 at 19:12:05
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In your last line, isn't 7...Bf5! the real killer of this line for White? At least I have learnt that this is the reason many London-players play the line with 2. Bf4, because it prevents just that move, since White can take the bishop and after that, d5 is hanging.
  
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Pcal
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Re: London System Question
Reply #7 - 01/28/15 at 17:59:37
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Well yea..Certifiably getting e5 is natural,  but I think that is tougher than it looks. (without giving some form of concession with someone who knows what they are doing with the London)   I was taking the move order from from the game I posted that had an early h4. (the only one I could find on CB on line data base)

Lately I've been exploring  some interesting lines In this var
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 e6 3.e3 Bd6 4.Bxd6 Qxd6 [4...cxd6 5.Qg4!?] 5.Qg4!? (very interesting)

To me the critical line in the London is 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 c5 in fact I think this is the main reason why many GM's who play the London play Nf3 before Bf4. (in order to play a colors reverse Semi Slav)

I play 4.dxc5 lines (which seem to have a pretty good pedigree as far as titled players using it) it's outside the norm of a London system but obviously you got to mix it up (I essay a 2.c4 as much as I play 2. Bf4) I do pretty good with it especially against Indian openings.. (as well as I do 2.c4 main lines.. )

IMO  Once Black pushes c4 he immediately equalizes  not just equalizes... the position becomes easy to play for him and harder for white.)   

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 c5 4.Nf3 Qb6 5.c3?! Nc6 6.Qb3 c4 7.Qc2 g6! DONE game! 



  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #6 - 01/28/15 at 16:05:51
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I can't say that play such as ...cd, ...Re8 and ...Bd7 looks good to me.  Getting in ...e5 is natural, no?
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #5 - 01/28/15 at 14:46:04
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Anonymous3 wrote on 08/17/14 at 02:37:20:
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Nf3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.Nbd2 Be7 now Prie recommends 7.h4 and gives it a "!" but how should White respond to 7...Bd6! I can't find any mention of this move.



I play the London system.  thought I'd this give my "Amateur" opinion.

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.e3 Be7 6.h4! Bd6?! 7.Bxd6 Qxd6 8.Bd3 Nf6 9.Nbd2 0-0 10.Qe2 cxd4 11.exd4 Re8 12.Ne5 Bd7 13.g4!? Look  good to me! 
I found the game....

Blatney (2430) vs Frolik (2273)
Mor-cht 10/10/2004

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.e3 Be7 6.h4! Nf6 7.Nbd2 a6 8.Bd3 Bd7 9.Ne5 Rc8 10.g4!? I think this is the idea Gm Prie had in mind.  

10...cxd4 11.exd4 Qb6 12.g5?! IMO this is where Blantny goes wrong. His attack it thwarted by Black Queen smashing into White's center [Better was 12.Rb1 maintaining his space advantage on the king side 12...h6 13.Qf3˛] 12...Nxe5! 13.Bxe5 Qxb2 14.gxf6 gxf6 15.Bf4 Qxc3 16.Be2 Qxd4µ Line

  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #4 - 12/30/14 at 16:20:55
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I don't know about giving 7. h4 a "!"  that's seems pretty extravagant.

Maybe because the standard practice of
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Nf3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.Nbd2 Be7 7.h4!? Bd6?! 8.Ne5 (standard stuff)


Or just leave it and continue to develop (8. Bd3 etc ) if black takes on f4 (8...BxB) white has a vise on e5.

e4 isn't a weakness because white has f3. 

7.h4 does accelerate things though



  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #3 - 09/08/14 at 15:42:51
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kylemeister wrote on 09/03/14 at 20:55:58:
Beats me.  Of course it is an old main line + h4; that added move seems of doubtful desirability to me.

I agree. White can't play Bg3 anymore. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #2 - 09/03/14 at 20:55:58
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Beats me.  Of course it is an old main line + h4; that added move seems of doubtful desirability to me.
  
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Re: London System Question
Reply #1 - 09/03/14 at 19:14:40
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hello?
  
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Anonymous3
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London System Question
08/17/14 at 02:37:20
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1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Nf3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.Nbd2 Be7 now Prie recommends 7.h4 and gives it a "!" but how should White respond to 7...Bd6! I can't find any mention of this move.
  
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