TN wrote on 08/30/17 at 12:29:04:


I thought 4.e3 Bg7 5.h4 was the latest and greatest try there.

some defensive programming might have been in order

I spend a lot of time changing 0-0-0 to O-O-O in my PGN files. According to the PGN standard, only the second one is correct. See section 8.2.3.3: "Note that the upper case letter "O" is used, not the digit zero." Programs vary as to whether they will accept 0-0-0, but I haven't noticed any that reject O-O-O. Perhaps because it was lowercase o-o-o?

Another interesting punt.

One thing that I noticed that there were no notes in the PDF guide from ChessPublishing in the Veresov portion. Am I missing their notes on the Jobava-Prié Attack somewhere?

Thanks
AP

Note to moderator, if possible, please combine this thread with the other thread I seemed to have started in the main d pawn specials thread, (responded to by Vass), and also if you could amend the corrupted pgn files in *this thread! that would be appreciated. This is more or less my first big attempt at publishing here, and apparently there is errors in the execution of the pgn play board that I've made. If I need to fix it myself, kindly message me with instructions, I'd appreciate it. Feel free to delete this current post once this has been fixed, I would just like the posts to flow well. Thank you.

-SnowLion 

Anonymous3 wrote on 11/11/14 at 05:06:28:


I agree, it could be interesting. White keeps trying after the potential 4.e4 to transpose to better-or at the very least unusual and uncomfortable- versions of a 1.e4 opening. Lakdawala kept mentioning this strategic aim in his "Ferocious Opening Repertoire" and citing the "bad French Defence" positions black often finds himself in. Granted, he was often mentioning the suspect Nbd7/Nf6/e6/d5 scheme from black, answered soundly by a quick e4/e5 idea, but maybe, white can try similar ideas. Cyrus was talking about the Bg5 Richter-Veresov with f3 and e4, it should be mentioned when he was referring to this however. 

I'm willing to continue looking deeper with Stockfish into the above mentioned lines of Anonymous, for fun, and to search for what I might be able to find in this line, but I should mention that as of now, in my own games, I prefer to play my pawn forward [i]on the third move[/i] after 2...c5 because the Morris Gambit seems to be exactly what kind of game I'm wanting to play as white. 

So as of right now my move order is 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 (it should be mentioned, that I believe in whites chances in the London system proper, though to get into this here any further is outside of the "Veresov" thread) 2...c5 and now I like to play 3.e4!?

But ok, for the sake of the line we can try to explore 3.Nc3, (with the general idea to play e4 as soon as possible, even if white needs to make it a sacrifice, though the preparatory move pawn to f3 should always be considered first). 

First, let's consider 3...Nc6, as 3...Nf6 transposes to the analysis already given. 

1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 c5 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. e4!? cxd4 5. exd5 dxc3 6. dxc6 Qxd1+ 7. Rxd1 bxc6 8. bxc3 f6 9. Bc7 and white has enough activity for at least equality.
...Kf7 10. Rd8 e6 11. Ba6 Ne7 12. Nf3 g5 13. Be2 Bg7 14. Rxh8 Bxh8 15. c4 e5 16. g4 Bg7 17. h4 h6 18. hxg5 hxg5 19. Nd2 Be6 20. Ne4 and Stockfish gives +0.30 after about an hour of searching. White seems to have more active minors, in particular dark squared bishops, because of the black kingside pawns. White's king is more active and centralized, and has better chances to infiltrate blacks queenside.

The analysis of the pawn sac is interesting. If it's sound, it could make 3.Nc3!? an interesting response after 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5. The idea is to meet 3...Nf6, 3...Nc6, and 3...e6 with 4.e4. 

After 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? what about 3...g6? I haven't been able to find any edge for White here.

This is an interesting opening that is gaining popularity in international chess lately, and though it may seem counterintuitive to develop like this as white, I'd invite you to explore some of the positive aspects of the white position. 

I'm hoping to exchange ideas and foster growth in this system.

Find Jobava's games with white in this line, or Rapport, or the top German GM, or Stefanova. Attacking players like this line. Also GM's. Harikrishna, Nakamura, Ganguly, our own Eric Prie and world junior champion Ipatov have contributed to the line.

This scheme of development is about speed/development, unorthodoxy, piece play, sacking the b pawn, f3-g4/e4 ideas and oftentimes trying for reversed Albin/Chigorin lines with white up a tempo (often with Bf4 thrown in, which arguably is a good natural developing move.) 

Some may scoff and suggest this is a downright wrong way to play for an edge as white. Ok, at 2700+ maybe it's important to constantly search for computer perfect edge/truth schema, but I'd invite you to contemplate similar themes as the one here that I am suggesting. The Trompowsky, and the London system still for example, have much practical sting! These are all developing moves, after all. White moves with purpose. Arguably, this is a fascinating line that is exploding in popularity right now, and should be respected. Don't forget, chess is ultimately 0.00 and drawn, it happens in the Slav, the Grunfeld, Ruy Lopez and anything else. It's very much worth looking into as a white weapon, and has strong practical value.

Some ideas, 

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? Bf5 (the move that is played against me the most) and now:

4.f3 (trying for e4 or g4) e6 (or c6 are most common here and lead to similar reactions from white)
5.g4 Bg6 6.h4 h5 (6...h6!?) 7.g5 Nd7 8.e4 and white has an advantage in space, development and better coordination. White will try to castle queenside if possible, and play for mate on the black king. 

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3 c5!? 4.e4!? Is a common idea in these types of positions, leading to interesting gambit play. 

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Bf5 4.f3 e6 5.g4 Bg6 6.h4 h6 7.e3 (white can and often does just get on with simple development, nothing flashy. How can this be wrong? I put the question to you, black plays like this in respected Chigorin lines, so why not I say?) 

7...c5 8.h5 Bh7 9.Nb5!? (Another common idea in these types of positions, especially of late in international chess. A couple of points;

1. The knight move obviously threatens c7, and forces some concession,

2. As the knight hops to b5, the c pawn can move now, either to c3 to solidify the Slav/London pawn centre, or c4 gaining space. 

3.The knight foray into the queenside will usually be met by Na6, an ugly rim move for the horse, and if we compare knights, whites is vastly superior. It controls some key dark squares in blacks camp, and working in tandem with our old friend the Dark Squared Bishop at f4, restricts black and can set up the foundation for a continued assault on the queenside. Add one more piece, or an open file for a rook into the matter, and white might very well be able to penetrate blacks position. Blacks knight has to sit on the rim at a6 and watch this happen. I like white.