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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik on the downfall (Read 14663 times)
RoleyPoley
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #48 - 12/13/14 at 22:43:53
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Uhohspaghettio wrote on 12/13/14 at 15:21:49:
I think RenesDescartes has a vastly greater knowledge and understanding of chess and chess players than me. However I have a question, not to be taken as challenging the analysis: if Botvinnik was so boring, then how come he led the way with playing f3 in the queen's gambit, and presumably g4 in many lines? I had never heard of this reputation of Botvinnik before, I heard it of Karpov and of Carlsen and sometimes of Anand but believed if anything the opposite of Botvinnik.
   
I'm sure he must have had something of this reputation. However in a way, isn't that just chess? Chess isn't a party. There's a difference between playing correctly and obstinately cautiously and forcing draws or dull endgames you have specialist knowledge of. 



I think Rene was being sarcastic in response to someone labelling Kramnik a coffeehouse player.
  

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Uhohspaghettio
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #47 - 12/13/14 at 15:21:49
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I think RenesDescartes has a vastly greater knowledge and understanding of chess and chess players than me. However I have a question, not to be taken as challenging the analysis: if Botvinnik was so boring, then how come he led the way with playing f3 in the queen's gambit, and presumably g4 in many lines? I had never heard of this reputation of Botvinnik before, I heard it of Karpov and of Carlsen and sometimes of Anand but believed if anything the opposite of Botvinnik.
   
I'm sure he must have had something of this reputation. However in a way, isn't that just chess? Chess isn't a party. There's a difference between playing correctly and obstinately cautiously and forcing draws or dull endgames you have specialist knowledge of. 
  

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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #46 - 12/08/14 at 23:59:52
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Maybe he is just not quite as motivated as he once was, having already achieved everything there is to achieve in chess and having a family and all Smiley  he is still an absolute beast of course. I would love to see a Carlsen - Kramnik match above all.
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #45 - 12/05/14 at 22:29:22
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up and comer wrote on 12/04/14 at 18:41:46:
Not bad Mr. Kramnik  Cool. Add in his appearance fee and it was a financially successful tournament, on top of gaining some rating points and passing Nakamura on the live ratings list.


Do you mean Hikaru Nakamura, the manga writer?  Wink She writes interesting stuff.

Seriously, each world champion will be beaten. So being in the top ten is no downfall then. So the title of this thread sounds like trolling to me.  Sad
  

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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #44 - 12/05/14 at 19:29:45
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Yu is no mug, welcome to the real world Mr Kramnik. He didnt do too bad all the same.
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #43 - 12/04/14 at 21:20:44
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ReneDescartes wrote on 12/04/14 at 15:48:15:
Yeah, Kramnik playing the Berlin and eventually playing a risky move or, God forbid, making a tactical error is the height of coffeehouse chess. In fact, when you say "coffeehouse," you say "Kramnik." It figures, because, after all, he was the last champion student of that ultimate coffeehouse player and devil-may-care bon-vivant, Botvinnik--the life of the Party.


f5&gxf5 is not only a tactical error (I assume he missed Qc3), it's pretty insane to consider in this situation, when he only needs a draw to clinch the tournament win. Even without a direct tactical refutation, that game is going to end either 1-0 or 0-1 after he opens the g-file.

Lawl @ Botvinnik-the life of the Party, I will use that for sure. Coincidentally many Botvinnik School students were daredevil attacking types -- they probably benefited from the training there the most.
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #42 - 12/04/14 at 18:41:46
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Not bad Mr. Kramnik  Cool. Add in his appearance fee and it was a financially successful tournament, on top of gaining some rating points and passing Nakamura on the live ratings list.
  

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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #41 - 12/04/14 at 18:34:55
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up and comer wrote on 12/04/14 at 17:49:55:
I wonder how much money he won.

$12500 https://twitter.com/chess24com/status/540499322228330498
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #40 - 12/04/14 at 17:49:55
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Kramnik was playing his game against Yu pretty well until f5 happened. After that things quickly got away from him. I would personally call that a positional error, although tactical errors soon followed. Other than that strange move very good form from Kramnik, it was fun to watch his games. He tied for second with Giri right? I wonder how much money he won.
  

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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #39 - 12/04/14 at 16:49:38
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9 rounds without a break is a fairly brutal schedule Smiley
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #38 - 12/04/14 at 15:48:15
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Yeah, Kramnik playing the Berlin and eventually playing a risky move or, God forbid, making a tactical error is the height of coffeehouse chess. In fact, when you say "coffeehouse," you say "Kramnik." It figures, because, after all, he was the last champion student of that ultimate coffeehouse player and devil-may-care bon-vivant, Botvinnik--the life of the Party.
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #37 - 12/04/14 at 15:11:36
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Pretty baffling loss to Yu after a great tournament. Why did he choose to play coffeehouse chess today? Was he angling for 8/9 glory?
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #36 - 12/04/14 at 12:48:07
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Kramnik on his downfall gained 8 rating points. I wish each downfall I have to go through would end the same way.
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #35 - 12/04/14 at 12:16:52
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something went very wrong for Kramnik
  
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Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #34 - 12/04/14 at 10:49:57
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 12/04/14 at 01:38:25:
This loss was a huge hit to GM Giri's career. One which he may never recover from.

It's really sad to see him lose to someone like Kramnik who just doesn't have it anymore.



iirc Giri does not have a good record vs. Kramnik. Also from some of Giri's annotations at Chessbase one can tell that he admires Kramnik's play. I think he could have some psychological difficulties facing Kramnik and this may affect his level of play.
  

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