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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Stockfish
Reply #6 - 12/06/14 at 14:07:37
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Vass wrote on 12/03/14 at 08:00:11:
Analysing with Stockfish means you'll have to wait much more on every move you enter


It's true that I found it a bit disconcerting at first, it seems to jump around a bit, but it soon settles on a good move.
  
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brabo
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Re: Stockfish
Reply #5 - 12/03/14 at 20:46:04
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Vass wrote on 12/03/14 at 17:06:30:
And I may say that most of the given lines, while good for OTB play, are not appropriate for correspondence chess at all.

But also valid is the other way around. Some weeks ago I was following 2 recently won correspondence games in the Chinese Dragon. My opponent deviated with an inferior move but instead of easily winning, I completely lost track in the jungle. The position can be controlled via engines in correspondence but at the board it is simply too complicated and you make unavoidably mistakes.

It is why I now also look for positions at OTB which are easier playing for me compared to my opponent despite my engines show that perfect play should give nothing.
  
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Vass
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Re: Stockfish
Reply #4 - 12/03/14 at 17:06:30
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@Tony Well, every top engine can be a good weapon in the hands of a good player!  Smiley
@brabo Yes, a powerful hardware is a must when using Stockfish.

I can speak for hours about all the strengths and weaknesses of the today's top engines, because I use them every day in my correspondence chess tries. But, I won't do that here! I think everyone can learn best by his own experience.
Just to say that the correspondence chess player's approach is much different than the approach of an OTB player when comes to analysis with engines. While the OTB player can be satisfied with +0.35 (let's say as per Houdini evaluations) after the opening and all the opening book writers can claim an advantage open-heartedly, the correspondence chess player will prolong the analysis of the lines until he finds a good advantage (+0.65 for example). And he won't play the move if he finds out that 8-10 moves after, all the lines go to +0.20 or less.. Instead, he will choose the second, or the third line if he is sure it will provide say +0.32 in all variations 8-10 or more moves ahead. In other words, a good correspondence chess player is fighting for an advantage inch by inch! I've read many opening books with much novelties with a big 'N' with my engines at hand. And I may say that most of the given lines, while good for OTB play, are not appropriate for correspondence chess at all.
As for the top engines, I would say only one thing - give them enough time and all will find the "perfect line" sooner or later. All you have to do is...prolong the lines!  Wink
  
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brabo
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Re: Stockfish
Reply #3 - 12/03/14 at 14:39:49
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If you look at http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/404/rating_list_all.html then you notice a big difference in strength between release 4 and 5 for Stockfish. 100 points !!
On a slower speed it is still 60 points : http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/rating_list_all.html

I switched about a month ago from release 4 to 5 and I must confess that I notice the difference as it has clearly improved in tactics.

Stockfish also just won stage 3 at TCEC: https://www.facebook.com/tcec.chess in front of Komodo, Houdini,...

We are lucky to get such top-program for free.

Now I also see a point in Vass comment. Last few days I was analyzing a quiet opening and I noticed several times that I had to give extra time before Stockfish would play the expected human moves. With extra time I mean 10 minutes which is surely not something you want to give for every move. Of course much depends on the hardware used.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Stockfish
Reply #2 - 12/03/14 at 13:14:30
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Vass wrote on 12/03/14 at 08:00:11:
As for Stockfish's performance as analysis tool, I think it's not the best one (at least for now) because of its faster pruning of moves (in order to achieve higher depth). Analysing with Stockfish means you'll have to wait much more on every move you enter (to achieve depth 45 plys, for example) to be sure that it didn't miss tactics.


That's interesting, I find myself using it more and more to analyse games as I get the impression that it finds stronger moves than Houdini (my previous favourite).
  
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Vass
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Re: Stockfish
Reply #1 - 12/03/14 at 08:00:11
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Well, the last developper's versions of Stockfish (http://abrok.eu/stockfish/) installed on a powerful PC are stronger than all the other engines (such as Komodo, Houdini and Gull) in head-to-head matches (http://tcec.chessdom.com/live.php and http://tcec.chessdom.com/archive.php). Your Ipad version probably is the best one for IOS, too..
As for Stockfish's performance as analysis tool, I think it's not the best one (at least for now) because of its faster pruning of moves (in order to achieve higher depth). Analysing with Stockfish means you'll have to wait much more on every move you enter (to achieve depth 45 plys, for example) to be sure that it didn't miss tactics.  Wink
  
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HgMan
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Stockfish
12/03/14 at 02:04:40
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I have Stockfish on my iPad, which seems like a nice little piece of work. Does anyone have any sense of its overall strength and what kinds of strengths and weaknesses it possesses as an analysis tool?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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