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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) My thinking time compared to the opponent's (Read 13109 times)
TD
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #23 - 12/12/17 at 08:56:48
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Gorath wrote on 02/26/15 at 18:25:35:
GM Reynaldo Vera posted an interesting summary article about time trouble on the website of the FIDE Trainer Commission.

I re-read Vera's article and it is indeed very good. I will make a list of my games time-habits and I am curious what that shows. I know from the past that I use(d) (very) much time between move 10-20.
  
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dfan
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #22 - 12/11/17 at 18:48:13
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ReneDescartes wrote on 12/11/17 at 17:38:50:
The one sneaky thing I sometimes do [in opponents' time-trouble] is play strategically sound neutral moves that make him make an open-ended, floating decision with no concrete threats to focus his mind. For example, I'll just centralize my queen in a heavy-piece endgame. Or I'll kick his queen if it's got lots of squares to go to and there's no great basis for deciding.

Yes! I think this is the one actually useful technique for taking advantage of opponents' time pressure. It is especially useful when your opponent is so jacked up on time-trouble adrenalin that you can feel that he's preparing instant responses to lots of moves. Just forcing him to context-switch from "retrieve the correct move from my precomputed table and make it instantly" mode into "actually think about the new position on the board" mode can be worth valuable (to him) seconds.

(These moves also often have the bonus of being really good moves.)

The converse of this is to avoid forcing moves and sequences; it's exactly what they want. I shake my head when I see someone whose opponent has only seconds on the clock at move 35 enter a long sequence of checks and/or captures.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #21 - 12/11/17 at 17:38:50
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Stigma wrote on 12/11/17 at 13:44:41:
I guess +EV means "increased expectancy value".

I.e. something you expect to have a positive effect for you, on average.

I have no time to read the entire thread now, but if it's what I think it is, I will just say that I stopped writing down my opponent's clock times many years ago, while I always write my own. The reason is I would sometimes mentally justify spending too much time with "as long as I'm not behind my opponent, it's OK". But if the opponent spends too much time, that's not a good reason to make the same mistake yourself!

So now I try not to care about the opponent's clock at all. (Though I occasionally write it down if s/he gets into real trouble on the clock early on.)

That said, in most games I'm behind on the clock, not ahead. So that didn't solve all my time trouble issues by any means.


Yes! This is the right approach for mere mortals. Trying to play on your opponent's time trouble is very risky--often, you just help him. People think mostly about tactics in time trouble, so complications will often play to his strength. Moving fast hurts yourself more than it hurts  him. And it's imperative not to let him impose his rhythm on you. I straighten my back, face straight ahead, relax my arms,  and look down at the board with my eyes only, like Capablanca, all to make my body feel like I'm deliberating with poise.

The one sneaky thing I sometimes do is play strategically sound neutral moves that make him make an open-ended, floating decision with no concrete threats to focus his mind. For example, I'll just centralize my queen in a heavy-piece endgame. Or I'll kick his queen if it's got lots of squares to go to and there's no great basis for deciding.

Botvinnik, however, played unorthodox move-orders against Reshevsky and said, "It is always useful to make a time-trouble addict start thinking early in the game."
  
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Stigma
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #20 - 12/11/17 at 13:44:41
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I guess +EV means "increased expectancy value".

I.e. something you expect to have a positive effect for you, on average.

I have no time to read the entire thread now, but if it's what I think it is, I will just say that I stopped writing down my opponent's clock times many years ago, while I always write my own. The reason is I would sometimes mentally justify spending too much time with "as long as I'm not behind my opponent, it's OK". But if the opponent spends too much time, that's not a good reason to make the same mistake yourself!

So now I try not to care about the opponent's clock at all. (Though I occasionally write it down if s/he gets into real trouble on the clock early on.)

That said, in most games I'm behind on the clock, not ahead. So that didn't solve all my time trouble issues by any means.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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TD
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #19 - 12/11/17 at 12:46:42
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Gorath wrote on 02/14/15 at 02:41:07:
My willingness to take intuitive decisions has grown. For experienced & knowledgeable players conscious intuitive decisions are +EV.

I googled +EV, but I am still not sure what this means...
  
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #18 - 12/11/17 at 12:01:23
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I write down the times of both my move and opponent’s move every five moves. Also if I or my opponent take a long time for a specific move I write that down too.
  
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TD
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #17 - 12/10/17 at 11:48:26
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Since the introduction of the increment my time-trouble worries are (almost) completely over! Smiley

In the national league I play 90min+30sec inc. for 40 moves + 30 min+30sec inc. for the rest of the game. In the regional league and at my local club I play 90min+15sec inc. for the game.
  
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #16 - 03/01/15 at 06:50:46
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In terms of writing down time for each move, I think that this is overexcessive, especially if you play in those tournaments with broadcasts, the live broadcasts capture the time electronically either with their livestream or with DGT board transmissions, so you can look up the times taken anyway. 

I am assuming that the time control is 90min+30sec inc. for 40 moves + 30 min+30sec inc. for rest of the game. In any case, I find that spending time in the opening to figure out what is going on if it is critical and/eller unfamiliar is to spend time on that phase then speed up in the middlegame after outlining the plan, if the opponent spent little time in the opening but seems to know the position well. So it would spend time in the opening trying to get a good positiona and then using a framework to speed up during the entire middlegame.

Opposite would be if you know the opening well to blitz the opening and then spend it on the moves 20-40.
  
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #15 - 03/01/15 at 04:25:19
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That was more or less my point. If you're worried about the seconds saved by writing down the moves, there are probably bigger issues that are causing time trouble. 

Ever since the 30 second increment was added, I've not had any problems with time pressure. More importantly, when my opponents start running low on time, I no longer feel quite the same strain as I did before. I don't get caught up in their histrionics as much as I did with 40/2 types of time controls. 

Now, I don't worry too much if I burn half an hour or more on the first ten moves. If my opponent plays the opening very quickly, I wonder whether they had it all mapped out or if they're bluffing. But I no longer worry about the time deficit as much.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #14 - 03/01/15 at 02:31:31
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TD wrote on 02/04/15 at 15:56:51:
I almost always tend to think longer than my opponent, which in the end makes me a bit nervous when time-trouble is starting, because by then I am always behind on the clock. A clubmate of mine doesn't care too much about his opponents time, he just checks if he has sufficient time for the amount of moves he thinks he'll probably make.
 
If you do what your clubmate does and are correct in your estimation of the remaining moves, time trouble won't start (for you) at all. Then you can afford to be behind your opponent. But if you think time trouble normal or inevitable, it will happen. The discussion of writing moves doesn't have much bearing here; the important thing is not how to survive a few more seconds on the bleeding edge. I think that planning this way even normalizes time trouble, so is part of the problem.

Vera's article makes some great points I'd never seen, by the way, so thanks, Gorath, for that reference!
« Last Edit: 03/01/15 at 16:03:34 by ReneDescartes »  
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #13 - 02/27/15 at 15:05:20
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In my case it does help me to gather my thoughts and have a fresh look at the position afterwards.

But once I enter serious time trouble I use this trick (i.e. write down moves only when my opponent's clock is ticking) to save precious time. Once a teammate told me a useful trick when playing only on increment: you may try to play a couple of moves almost instantly if your position allows for it. Even if the moves turn out to be somewhat suboptimal, you still gain 1' on your clock (assuming a 30'' increment; which is what we get here for long OTB games). There are times when this makes sense (it certainly did when I got this advice as I had just lost a game 'cause my flag fell!).

But I may try Gorath's approach, could be interesting!
  

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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #12 - 02/27/15 at 14:55:38
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/27/15 at 14:03:13:
If writing on your opponent's time saves ~5 minutes per game, perhaps your problem is penmanship. Think about it for a moment. You're saying it takes 5 minutes to write maybe 100 words.

Incorrect comparison: 100 times 1 word, not 1 time 100 words. And always take the pen, put down the pen, look at board and clock, write down move, often write down time, readjust sitting position.
8-12 seconds per half move on average is not unrealistic for that. Now I write in bursts of two half moves, after I have made my move.

Quote:

I use the time to write the move down to gather my thoughts. It takes a few seconds, but it definitely helps. The writing down of a move should be able to be done in the span of the increment.

Of course the increment is more than enough to write. But let's turn it around: If I only play on increment later in the game, why should I waste a significant part of it on writing?
"Gathering your thoughts" is of course a good reason to write on your own time. If it helps you, fine.
I don't need to gather my thoughts though, because I'm not relaxed enough during the game to get it out of my head completely.
  
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #11 - 02/27/15 at 14:03:13
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If writing on your opponent's time saves ~5 minutes per game, perhaps your problem is penmanship. Think about it for a moment. You're saying it takes 5 minutes to write maybe 100 words. 

I use the time to write the move down to gather my thoughts. It takes a few seconds, but it definitely helps. The writing down of a move should be able to be done in the span of the increment. 

  
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #10 - 02/26/15 at 18:25:35
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GM Reynaldo Vera posted an interesting summary article about time trouble on the website of the FIDE Trainer Commission.
  
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TD
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Re: My thinking time compared to the opponent's
Reply #9 - 02/14/15 at 11:59:37
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Thanks for your reactions, especially Gorath!
  
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