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Normal Topic Help needed! how to deal with the Vector gambit? (Read 6028 times)
Lanark
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Re: Help needed! how to deal with the Vector gambit?
Reply #6 - 04/06/15 at 10:18:58
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raja wrote on 02/24/15 at 03:50:56:
1.c4 e5 2.g3 d5 3.cd c6!?

i am particularly concerned about the above move order because i have committed g3.....and i think after g3 by white ...black gets more than enough compensation...


I agree Black has compensation. Whether it is "more than enough" I'm not sure.
I'm afraid White has to bite the bullet and play a Morra with colours reversed, but I see the problem: You don't necessarily want to have played g3 in this case.

Any ideas if it's possible to get to a reversed Alapin? In the Sicilian the Alapin obviously has the better reputation than the Morra, but still many players transpose for practical reasons after
1. e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 with 3...d5 or 3...Nf6 to the lines they play against the Alapin.

Moreover, when you play the English you are not likely to look forward to a tactical struggle in the Morra reversed.

Unfortunately a transposition to the Alapin doesn't seem to work.
1.c4 e5 2.g3 d5 3.cxd5 c6 4.Nf3 e4 5.Nd4
1.c4 e5 2.g3 d5 3.cxd5 c6 4.d4 Qxd5 5.Nf3 e4
In both cases g6 doesn't really fit in.

Maybe 1.c4 e5 2.g3 d5 3.Bg2 can be considered, transposing to a position that usually comes via 1.g3 e5 2.Bg2 d5 3.c4!?
But still here Black can play 3...c6, and after 4.cxd5 Nf6 we are back in a Morra.
So if White definitely wants to avoid this he has to play something else than 4.cxd5 here, maybe 4.Nf3 or 4.d4.
Of course you have to be aware of Black's possibilities after 1.c4 e5 2.g3 d5 3.Bg2 like 3...d4.

By the way, I wonder why there aren't more games with 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 d5 4.cxd5 c6!? ...  Huh
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Help needed! how to deal with the Vector gambit?
Reply #5 - 02/24/15 at 06:26:12
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One thought is that an old main try in the Morra, 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 g6 6. Bc4 Bg7 7. e5 (I don't know if that was Esserman's choice) isn't going to be on the table here.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Help needed! how to deal with the Vector gambit?
Reply #4 - 02/24/15 at 06:13:51
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Bibs wrote on 02/24/15 at 06:00:47:
...g6 is generally considered suboptimal as a response to the Morra, afaik

I thought this was the general opinion as well, though I'm not sure that this is the correct opinion if, let's say, White was forced to waste a whole half-move, e.g. 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 g6 5.a3?, and so on. Black might be more than happy to defend this position, which is close enough to what we're talking about here.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Help needed! how to deal with the Vector gambit?
Reply #3 - 02/24/15 at 06:00:47
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iirc Esserman looks at this, no? Briefly.
I slightly disagree with peers here.
...g6 is generally considered suboptimal as a response to the Morra, afaik, thus this line, the reversed Morra, of sorts, may be, hmmm, okayish, almost okay to play as black.
(Well, if you think the Morra is okay itself that is).
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Help needed! how to deal with the Vector gambit?
Reply #2 - 02/24/15 at 04:15:06
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Well, ...g6 in the Morra has been considered respectable; I would certainly expect a tempo-up version to confer advantage.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Help needed! how to deal with the Vector gambit?
Reply #1 - 02/24/15 at 04:14:37
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Are you certain this is the case? With one tempo extra, g3 might turn out to be a strong move. Following the typical scheme of Smith-Morra development for Black seems to fail, e.g. 4.dxc6 Nxc6 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bg2 Bc5 7.Nf3 O-O 8.d3 (8.O-O is probably fine too) 8...Qe7 9.Bg5! with little compensation for Black. This is somewhat analogous to the common Smith Morra defense with 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6 7.O-O Nf6 8.Qe2 Bg4, except White has the slightly greedier development scheme with g3, but is a tempo up. There are alternatives however, e.g. 8...h6 or 8...Bf5, but I'm not sure I trust them entirely either after 9.O-O. I'd be very happy to take on the Smith-Morra with any marginally useful free tempo for White. What, concretely, is your actual objection?

I'm sure we can find something for White here!  Cheesy
  
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raja
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Help needed! how to deal with the Vector gambit?
02/24/15 at 03:50:56
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Anyone? i have sudied many english opening repertoires...including Mihail marin...tony kosten etc..but this vector gambit thing is not covered in any book..does anyone know a good way to play against it? 


i am not scared of 1.c4 d5 2.cd c6  because this would be like playing  morra gambit colors reversed with an extra tempo.....

but

1.c4 e5 2.g3 d5 .cd c6!?

i am particularly concerned about the above move order because i have comitted g3.....and i think after g3 by white ...black gets more than enough compenstion...


  
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