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Normal Topic Symmetrical e-pawn structures (Read 4891 times)
chk
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Re: Symmetrical e-pawn structures
Reply #5 - 04/06/15 at 13:13:16
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Yes, Nd3 could be a killer! I vaguely remember the example quoted by TN in "Simple Chess". I think also Silman has a couple of nice examples in this theme in his Reassess your Chess
  

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nocteus
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Re: Symmetrical e-pawn structures
Reply #4 - 04/06/15 at 12:22:58
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Thank you all for your replies! I found some games in Shereshevsky (oddly, I forgot about his books when looking for games) scattered in various chapters.

chk, bear in mind that a Nd3 not only allows your opponent to get control of the d-file (by doubling rooks without having to exchange them) but also attacks very sensible spots in your structure (b2 et f2).
  
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chk
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Re: Symmetrical e-pawn structures
Reply #3 - 04/06/15 at 08:40:06
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Thanks for the informative post TN!

One of my immediate thoughts was what you mention in your last paragraph (Nd3!). Though I personally wouldn't mind having the Knight even if the enemy Bishop is only partially restricted (say Black Nf6 vs. Bc2 in the above diagram). Of course, one has to see the specifics of each position, especially whether the Knight can find strong outposts (e.g. without the f-pawns, Nf6 is already a good place for the Knight).
  

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TN
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Re: Symmetrical e-pawn structures
Reply #2 - 04/05/15 at 07:30:15
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Yeah, it's just a simple, technical position and for this general understanding is probably the most valuable thing. Obviously the a7-g1 and a2-g8 diagonals are crucial - whoever controls more of these diagonals will generally have the advantage, unless there's some compensating factor like penetration of the d-file (and a way to make use of it). Obviously the rooks are quite likely to get exchanged in such a position making a mating attack by either side unlikely (the exception being if a side can get a knight fixed on f5/f4, say with the opponent having played ...h6/h3). It's quite common for the side with the initiative to push their h-pawn in such a situation to try and loosen up the opponent's king as a queenside attack will rarely be enough to win, even if you've e.g. played a4-a5 and forced the ...a6 weakening from the opponent.

I recall that in 'Simple Chess' by Michael Stean, there was a position with this structure, at the start of the section on 'open files'. The key points were that the rooks and dark-squared bishops were on the board (with White's on e3 and Black's on g7), White put a rook on d1, and Black couldn't challenge it because then after the exchange the a7-pawn would be undefended. Then if Black played ...a6 he would allow Bb6 and it would not be possible to stop the rook penetrating, and if ...b6 White plays a5 to create serious weaknesses on the queenside. Of course, in the computer era this situation would still be holdable for Black, but not without a lot of suffering.

Furthermore it would be a good idea to use the 'similar structures' search in ChessBase 12/13 (if you have it) to find relevant high-level games in this structure. The model players for White are Andersson (who often reached a similar structure in the Anglo-Grunfeld) and Carlsen (who reaches this sort of structure, but often with one side's c-pawn on the initial square in the d3 Ruy Lopez).

As far as queenside pawn moves go, you don't generally want to touch the c-pawn as it weakens d4/d5, and b4/...b5 tends to backfire as it can be hit by ...a5/a4.

The final points worth mentioning are that it's great if you can get a White knight to d6/Black knight to d3, but you need to have a lot of prior advantages in the position for this to be at all realistic, and that with the queens off, the bishop is likely to be better than the knight, unless nearly all the pawns of the side with the bishop are fixed on the same colour squares.



  

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ErictheRed
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Re: Symmetrical e-pawn structures
Reply #1 - 04/04/15 at 20:08:13
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Mastering the Endgame by Shereshevsky would be where I'd start.  And by "where I'd start" I don't at all mean that it's elementary; that's the best book that comes to mind based on what you've said. 

Perhaps a new edition of Pawn Structure Chess by Soltis, but I'm not sure.  The old edition didn't cover this structure much, strangely.
  
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nocteus
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Symmetrical e-pawn structures
04/04/15 at 19:13:11
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Hi, I often get this structure in my games.

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I am looking for some good strategical explanations about how to play it (in the middlegame or the endgame).
I posted this question here because it mainly occurs from the italian games, but it could come from a lot of openings (philidor, spanish, even KID,...). And I surprisingly find the literature on the subject rather inexistant. Do you know any book, chapter about it or simply detailing an instructive game? Thank you!
  
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