Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) French with e4-f4 (Read 7254 times)
Aziridine
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 146
Joined: 04/07/09
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #10 - 04/27/15 at 19:37:09
Post Tools
Gerry1970 wrote on 04/17/15 at 02:34:11:
After playing ...Nf5 are there any ideas on when Black should, or should not, play ...h5 to anchor the N at f5? Seems that White can often chop it off by Bxf5 so maybe not play ...h5?

Gerry


g2-g4 usually doesn't bother me, so I wouldn't play ...h5. Then again, it isn't necessary to rush with ...Nf5 either, you can leave it on h6 for a while. Has the benefit that after ...f6, ...Nf7 becomes a possibility.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gerry1970
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 482
Joined: 02/01/06
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #9 - 04/17/15 at 02:34:11
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 04/16/15 at 14:48:53:
Well, if White goes straight for an Advance French with f4 added, it is surely weak.  But of course when strong players play 2. f4 they don't do that.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

This is what I always think. e4-f4 in an Advance French must be weak but I can never seem to take advantage of it.

I knew CC meant playing ...Nh6. And I like that White cannot chop it off right away. After playing ...Nf5 are there any ideas on when Black should, or should not, play ...h5 to anchor the N at f5? Seems that White can often chop it off by Bxf5 so maybe not play ...h5?

Gerry
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gerry1970
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 482
Joined: 02/01/06
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #8 - 04/17/15 at 02:30:51
Post Tools
Thanks for the games.

Here it looked OK to push d4 as White could not play Ne4 easily (no N on d2).

I assume Black doesn't want to give e4 to a wN?

Gerry

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/16/15 at 16:58:57:
Nakamura has been on both sides of this. Black has allowed White to transpose into normal Advance Variation lines, but only those that favor Black.

Here's one game, with Naka as White, where he was given the opportunity to play d2-d4?  and reach a position that favors Black, but wisely chose a different continuation:




  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #7 - 04/16/15 at 16:58:57
Post Tools
Nakamura has been on both sides of this. Black has allowed White to transpose into normal Advance Variation lines, but only those that favor Black.

Here's one game, with Naka as White, where he was given the opportunity to play d2-d4?  and reach a position that favors Black, but wisely chose a different continuation:



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4725
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #6 - 04/16/15 at 14:48:53
Post Tools
Well, if White goes straight for an Advance French with f4 added, it is surely weak.  But of course when strong players play 2. f4 they don't do that.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CanadianClub
Senior Member
****
Offline


Greetings from Catalonia!

Posts: 379
Joined: 11/11/12
Gender: Male
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #5 - 04/16/15 at 07:47:31
Post Tools
ReneDescartes wrote on 04/15/15 at 21:40:58:
...after 1.e4 e6 2.f4 d5 3.e5 c5. (1) As CanadianClub said, you can play  ...Nh6-f5 (I assume that's what he meant) without worrying about a capture...


Yes, knight to h6 going to f5, not bishop of course. My mistake.

Thx to point this.

Yesterday night, I faced online a French advance with 2.f4 (I was Black; a 5' + 5'' game). Even if I missed a tactic in the endgame that made me almost losing (the game was drawn, that's the magic of blitz xdD). I entered to the middlegame with some advantage thanks to this move (easy development of the knight to h6, losing a tempo in the defence of the d4 pawn, h4 square able to check the king...). It was pure advance french with 2.f4. 3.c3 and 4.d4.  Nothing to worry about.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ReneDescartes
God Member
*****
Offline


Qu'est-ce donc que je
suis? Une chose qui pense.

Posts: 1215
Joined: 05/17/10
Gender: Male
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #4 - 04/15/15 at 21:40:58
Post Tools
No refutation. But a couple of things to remember after 1.e4 e6 2.f4 d5 3.e5 c5. (1) As CanadianClub said, you can play  ...Nh6-f5 (I assume that's what he meant) without worrying about a capture. (2) If White doesn't push d4, it's often fine to do so yourself, even after he plays c3. Thus you can deny him his huge Tarrasch f4 center if that's what he's after. (3) If White does play d4, then capturing is usually good and  the weak files and diagonals on the queenside will be yours to take.

Also, there's no law that says you can refute junk openings if you're playing Blitz. That's why it's Blitz.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CanadianClub
Senior Member
****
Offline


Greetings from Catalonia!

Posts: 379
Joined: 11/11/12
Gender: Male
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #3 - 04/11/15 at 14:28:21
Post Tools
In a pure french way of play, a good plan would be play Bh6 to f5. That if W plays in pure French way also.

I know a guy who plays this as W and goes for 3.Bd3 4.c3 and 5.Bc2. Not challenging for Black but first time you see it it's strange...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CanadianClub
Senior Member
****
Offline


Greetings from Catalonia!

Posts: 379
Joined: 11/11/12
Gender: Male
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #2 - 04/11/15 at 14:22:45
Post Tools
1) Pick up a database. Filter games with that position (after 1.e4 e6 2.f4). Choose one game played by a +2400 and follow him.

2) The key is quick development. Try to get your pieces out easy. Play a game against an engine being you White and you'll see how He plays.

Points 1 or 2 are OK, I think.  Another option is play 2...c5 and go to answer to the sicilian fanboys in their forum Cool
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: French with e4-f4
Reply #1 - 04/11/15 at 07:13:13
Post Tools
Hello Gerry,
There are not so much material currently in the forum about e4 and f4.
Various reasons : transpositions and "old" (19th century, La Bourdonnais) style of play as White.
You have links with off-beat lines such as Grand Prix Attack or some slower positional KID.
Transposition to "the big clamp" with c3-d4-e5-f4 is usually not a good idea for White : slow development not compensating the center space advantage.
Difficult to make a review for all variations at an early stage like this.
  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gerry1970
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 482
Joined: 02/01/06
French with e4-f4
04/11/15 at 07:01:23
Post Tools
Hello:
See a lot of 1.e4 and 2.f4 online. Wondering how to play against this. Sometimes White doesn't play d4 and I am not sure what to do.

If he plays c3 and d4 then I assume it is like a French Advance.

White seems to get a strong center in this line and I am thinking there has to be some drawback to it.

Thanks in advance,

Gerry
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo