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Normal Topic 1. Sf3 g6: Avoid Maróczy and KID (Read 3026 times)
Stigma
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Re: 1. Sf3 g6: Avoid Maróczy and KID
Reply #5 - 06/06/15 at 22:27:58
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kylemeister wrote on 06/06/15 at 04:24:19:
A couple of thoughts:

After 1. Sf3 g6 2. e4 Lg7 3. c4 there is 3...e5.  Decades ago IM Kim Commons claimed (in relation to a game Masic-Commons) that Black is already better there, but I think more recent thinking is that it should be equal. 

I would also suggest this line as a big part of the answer. It is often called the Adorjan variation of the English, and Adorjan (himself a noted Grünfeld exponent) had a chapter on it in his book Black is still OK!. I've seen 1.c4 g6 2.e4 e5 3.Nf3 Bg7 given as the "official" move order to reach it, but that doesn't matter. And the 4.Nf3 Bg4 Averbakh Modern must be a natural complement to it.

Of, course, in any game where you're happy to transpose to both the Leningrad Dutch and the Pirc, you can also meet 1.Nf3 with 1...d6 (2.e4 Nf6 or 2.c4 f5).
  

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Re: 1. Sf3 g6: Avoid Maróczy and KID
Reply #4 - 06/06/15 at 21:50:37
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My recommendation would be 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nc3 d5 as played by many of the most prominent Grunfeld exponents. You could also start with 1...c5 given that you're fine with an Open Sicilian transposition; then another possibility is 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6 but admittedly I'm less convinced by it.
  

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Re: 1. Sf3 g6: Avoid Maróczy and KID
Reply #3 - 06/06/15 at 14:44:20
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After 1.Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3.d4 d6 4.c4 you can also play 4...e5, which does not have to come to a King's Indian.  4...Bg4 is probably in better theoretical shape, though.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 1. Sf3 g6: Avoid Maróczy and KID
Reply #2 - 06/06/15 at 13:21:56
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Hello.

(1.Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3.d4 d6 4.c4)

Allows the reasonable independent variation 4...Bg4 for black. As far as I am aware this line is in good shape theoretically.

About the variation. The knight is not yet on f6, like in the KID, black can therefore get good play against d4. The plan is usually Nc6 and e5 almost always replying to d5 with Nd4. Because black does not go for c7-c5 this variation also has little similarity with the Maroczy.

Edit:
(1.Nf3 g6 2.e4 Bg7 3.c4 d6 4.Nc3 Nc6) or (1.Nf3 g6 2.e4 Bg7 3.c4 d6 4.Nc3 Bg4!?) is what I would suggest against 3.c4. Both moves look reasonable despite not having been played much.

The above mentioned: (1.Nf3 g6 2.e4 Bg7 3.c4 e5) could also be tried.


Have a nice day.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: 1. Sf3 g6: Avoid Maróczy and KID
Reply #1 - 06/06/15 at 04:24:19
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A couple of thoughts:

After 1. Sf3 g6 2. e4 Lg7 3. c4 there is 3...e5.  Decades ago IM Kim Commons claimed (in relation to a game Masic-Commons) that Black is already better there, but I think more recent thinking is that it should be equal. 

Regarding the Averbakh-Modern, I would have thought that 1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Bg7 3. d4 d6 4. c4 is considered suboptimal for White compared to the main stuff with Nc3 instead of Nf3.
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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1. Sf3 g6: Avoid Maróczy and KID
06/06/15 at 02:36:35
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I noticed something about when I play 1. Sf3 g6: how to avoid a KID and the Maróczy at the same time? I am a Grünfeld and Pirc player, so any transposition to either on part of White is welcomed wholeheartedly.

But I noticed something strange when I started thinking about if White is highly aware of avoiding both openings and is obsessed with either playing a Maróczy Bind or against the KID:



The problems are 1. Sf3 g6 2. e4 Lg7 3. c4 d6 4. d4 with is a transposition to a KID, as well as 3. d4 d6 4. c4 or 4. Sc3, where it looks like a KID setup.

To transpose into a 1...c5 English setup, White might have a Maróczy without the doubling of the pawns by delaying Sc3 with 1. Nf3 g6 2. e4 Ag7 3. c4 c5 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 Nc6 6. Le3.

I did a search and Caruana played 1. Sf3 g6 against Jakowenko in 2014:



To summarise, I want to avoid these at all costs:
-Maróczy Bind of any form
-KID
-Awerbach style Modern with c4
-anti-Sicilians
-Accelerated Dragon

I play these at will by transposition via 1. Sf3:
-Pirc
-Grünfeld
-Open Sicilian (non-Accelerated Dragon)

Is this the only way to avoid the KID or Maróczy if White really wants to play either of these openings? This looks like some weird KID hybridised with a Modern setup.

Lucklig none of my opponents have ever tried these things against me, maybe they never thought so much about it or were not hell bent on getting one of Maróczy Bind or the King's Indian, but those are two openings that I never want to play ever again as Black.

The Accelerated Dragon may be okay theoretically, but I always found it one of the most depressing Open Sicilians that man could play. I would not transpose to this opening under any circumstance.
  
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