ChessPub Forum - The Yurtaev Variation

Bibs God Member Offline Posts: 2338 Joined: 10/24/06	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #27 - 03/25/21 at 23:56:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/24/21 at 22:23:34: GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/23/21 at 17:17:34: after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 O-O Bc5 a lot of my opponents play 6 Re1 GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/24/21 at 22:10:08: I don't think there is much chance of this being seen in a serious game, though, as everyone plays 6 c3. Have you tried 5...b5 ? It sounds like sometimes you will get a free piece after 6.Re1. Then after they figure that out, you can switch to 5...Bc5 and get a free tempo after 6.Bb3. Sorry, I don’t follow. What is the theoretical argument here?


	IP Logged

an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1696 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #26 - 03/24/21 at 22:23:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/23/21 at 17:17:34: after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 O-O Bc5 a lot of my opponents play 6 Re1 GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/24/21 at 22:10:08: I don't think there is much chance of this being seen in a serious game, though, as everyone plays 6 c3. Have you tried 5...b5 ? It sounds like sometimes you will get a free piece after 6.Re1. Then after they figure that out, you can switch to 5...Bc5 and get a free tempo after 6.Bb3.


	IP Logged

GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3161 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #25 - 03/24/21 at 22:10:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/24/21 at 14:20:37: Although 9...h5 is playable, it doesn't seem to pose real problems for white. For example, after 17.Bd1 gxh3 18.gxh3 d5, 19.exd5, 19.h4, 19.a4, and 19.d4 are all a tiny bit better for white. (I'm only using a weak engine to double-check this, so caveat emptor.) I suppose there is nothing wrong with the obvious alternative 9...b5 10 Bb3 Nf6 11 c3 Bb6 12 d4 Bb7, but in practice it seems Black has only played 9...Nxf2, which might also be playable, but must be more fun for White. I think I would prefer 9...h5 in a quick game as White can easily go wrong and it would look a bit scary with White's queenside undeveloped. I don't think there is much chance of this being seen in a serious game, though, as everyone plays 6 c3.


	WWW Facebook Twitter IP Logged

an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1696 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #24 - 03/24/21 at 14:20:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Bc5 6.Re1 Ng4 7.Re2 Nd4 8.Nxd4 Bxd4 9.h3 h5 10.c3 Nxf2 11.Rxf2 Bxf2+ 12.Kxf2 Qh4+ 13.Kg1 g5 (13...b5 is worse because of 14.Bb3 g5?! 15.Qf1 Rh7 16.Qf2) 14.Qe2 g4 15.Qf2 Qxf2+ 16.Kxf2 b5. Here 17.Bb3, 17.Bc2, and 17.Bd1 must be about the same. If there is a difference it will only be seen after further moves. Although 9...h5 is playable, it doesn't seem to pose real problems for white. For example, after 17.Bd1 gxh3 18.gxh3 d5, 19.exd5, 19.h4, 19.a4, and 19.d4 are all a tiny bit better for white. (I'm only using a weak engine to double-check this, so caveat emptor.) To be really effective, a surprise "weapon" ideally needs to leave white wondering if they have made a mistake already; or at least have a steep drop-off between the best and the second-best move.


	IP Logged

MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10758 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #23 - 03/24/21 at 06:38:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	Isn't 17.Bc2 an improvement? If not, isn't 13...b5 14.Bc2 (14.Bb3 Qxe4) g5 more precise?

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
	IP Logged

GMTonyKosten

YaBB Administrator

Offline

Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3161
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male

Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #22 - 03/23/21 at 17:17:34

Post Tools

Print Post

Occasionally I play this Yurtaev line in blitz games, and after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 O-O Bc5 a lot of my opponents play 6 Re1 to which I reply 6...Ng4!? the point being that after 7 Re2 Nd4 8 Nxd4 Bxd4, should White play the obvious and thematic 9 c3?? he loses immediately to 9...Qh4 10 h3 Bxf2+ and either 11 Kh1 Qg3 12 hxg4 Qh4# or 11 Kf1 Nh2#!
So, the only decent move is 9 h3, but then I was thinking: what about 9...h5!? 10 c3 (10 hxg4? hxg4 must be winning, 11 g3 Qf6) 10... Nxf2! 11 Rxf2 Bxf2+ 12 Kxf2 Qh4+

and now 13 Kg1 (13 Kf1? Rh6! and ...Rf6+) 13...g5 which looks playable, 14 Qe2 g4 15 Qf2 Qxf2+ 16 Kxf2 b5 17 Bd1 gxh3 18 gxh3 d5 being one possibility.
As far as I can see 11...h5 has never been played, is it any good?!

WWW

Facebook

Twitter

IP Logged

stockhausen YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing so much! Posts: 42 Joined: 01/19/19	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #21 - 07/27/19 at 21:03:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 09/25/17 at 08:17:35: Berlin ftw. Perhaps the Berlin is the best way to get a game of chess against the Spanish. At least top level practice would seem to suggest so.


	IP Logged

TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #20 - 09/25/17 at 08:17:35	Post Tools	Print Post
	Berlin ftw.

	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
	IP Logged

BobbyDigital80 Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 355 Joined: 05/15/08 Gender:	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #19 - 09/25/17 at 01:11:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	The Yurtaev/New Archangel is way more complicated than playing ...b5 and ...Bc5 against 5.d3 or 5.Qe2. The Yurtaev line has a lot of forced variations that lead to draws or just extremely crazy positions where Black sacs a piece for a few pawns. I'd probably play the line if there was more room for creativity and you could just play "a game of chess," but from what I've seen you don't really get to do that. I'm still trying to find a line I really like as Black against the Ruy Lopez.


	IP Logged

fjd God Member Offline Posts: 551 Location: Ottawa Joined: 09/22/16	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #18 - 09/16/17 at 17:33:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yeah 5 0-0 poses the greatest threat because c3 and d4 is still possible.


	IP Logged

FreeRepublic God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 783 Location: Georgia Joined: 06/08/17 Gender:	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #17 - 09/16/17 at 13:14:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	Panczyk and Emms wrote an excellent book "Archangel and New Archangel" in 2000. It was ahead of it's time. The book contains information that I have yet to digest, so I can recommend it even now, 17 years later. It also covers the Moller variation. There are a maze of interesting lines. Victor Mikhalevski wrote an excellent book on the Open Ruy Lopez. He covers white alternatives that avoid the Open variation, including 5d3 (two chapters) and 5Qe2 (one chapter). After those moves, he recommends 5...b5 6Bb3 Bc5!? Black has other answers, but these tend towards the Closed Ruy Lopez, which was not black's intended choice. I really like the Open Ruy Lopez. Still, I have to ask myself the question, if I intend to answer 5d3 and 5Qe2 with ...b5 and ...Bc5, why not play the same way against 5 castles? Why not play the New Archangel/Yurtaev variation and have a universal system against these three popular 5th moves by white? With black intending to play ...b5 and Bc5, the three lines, 50-0, 5d3 and 5Qe2, can transpose or go their separate ways. Is there an argument that one of white's 5th moves poses a greater threat to black's intended plan?


	IP Logged

TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #16 - 08/21/17 at 06:42:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	If Svidler's series is a bit too detailed for your level (and it's true, the subsequent Karjakin-Svidler showed a practical issue with such sharp lines), I can recommend Adhiban's article in Yearbook 123. Fwiw, I first read the story of the 'Yurtaev Variation' in a Forum contribution in an old Yearbook.

	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
	IP Logged

Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2916 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #15 - 08/16/17 at 19:57:36	Post Tools	Print Post
	BobbyDigital80 wrote on 08/16/17 at 19:19:55: Is there a way to edit a post? I meant 7.d3 instead of 6.d3 and I meant to say "shuts" instead of the s-word. I got what you meant Bobby


	IP Logged

BobbyDigital80 Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 355 Joined: 05/15/08 Gender:	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #14 - 08/16/17 at 19:19:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	Is there a way to edit a post? I meant 7.d3 instead of 6.d3 and I meant to say "shuts" instead of the s-word.


	IP Logged

MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2080 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: The Yurtaev Variation Reply #13 - 08/15/17 at 08:05:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Especially with how nowadays you can seemingly make white play d3 with almost no effort at all


	IP Logged