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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook (Read 18815 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #28 - 11/17/15 at 16:43:24
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I did go through the entire Levenfish and Smyslov book. I wouldn't go through an entire encyclopedia.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #27 - 11/17/15 at 16:26:05
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I think there is little benefit to doing all the problems in the ECE. For me it is a reference guide and source of training material.
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #26 - 11/16/15 at 03:47:17
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Thanks for your input. I am continuing with ECE and also the Löwenfisch/Smyslow book. When playing through the positions, did you do almost the entire book? Or is the kost to benefit ratio of doing that too low?

I focus a lot on the R+P v. R positions and they helped me a lot. I feel fairly confident if I had time trouble on increment after studying those.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #25 - 11/05/15 at 16:02:19
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I would suggest that you use ECE as (1) a source for training and (2) a reference.

(1) Choose positions at random / random-ish and then play them out against the computer. Compare your moves against what the computer suggests later.

(2) If you get a rook endgame, find similar looking endgames in the book and study them to learn key ideas, see what is different with your position and the one in the book, etc.
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #24 - 11/05/15 at 08:03:43
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I have now 1000 Turmendspiele, but not sure how to use it. I am on Example 343 of Encyclopædia of Chess Endings: Rook Endings I by Informator and am wondering how to use it. I am helped a lot by the exemples but it took me over a month just to get to 343. There are almost 2000 exemple positions, so it might literally take me more than a year to finish this bog. I think that it might be helpful to finish the whole bog, but almost 2000 exemples in 500 pages is a lot. Anyone here read the whole thing cower to cower?

I also bought the bog Rook Endings by Löwenfish and Smyslow and Comprehensiwe Chess Endings Volume V: Rook Endings by Awerbach and Grigorijiew for my birthday. Which order should I read these?
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #23 - 10/12/15 at 23:09:41
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 10/12/15 at 00:03:19:
I wil definitely buy Müllers book, but that is quite far in the future, 2016 it seems?

Anyone know what the 1000 Turmendspiele buch is by Pintér? I cannot find an excerpt to see what kind of examples it is, or Table of Content.


It's like a smaller version of the encyclopedia of endgames and part of a # of tomes about endgames. Having it in my hands and looking through I thought it's something to buy for training purposes if you have a good knowledge.
  

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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #22 - 10/12/15 at 00:03:19
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I wil definitely buy Müllers book, but that is quite far in the future, 2016 it seems?

Anyone know what the 1000 Turmendspiele buch is by Pintér? I cannot find an excerpt to see what kind of examples it is, or Table of Content.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #21 - 10/11/15 at 05:59:18
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I can't post a link yet, but Karsten Mueller will be releasing "Understanding Rook Endgames" early next year (Gambit). I assume that this will be the newest best book on Rook endings, given what he has previously done (both in books and in DVDs).
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #20 - 10/11/15 at 05:05:47
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I have been studying rook endgames for a while these past months, mostly with Nunn's Secrets of Rook Endgames and ECE Volume II. But I was looking at some of the "klassiks" like

1. Theorie und Praxis der Turmendspiele (Löwenfisch und Smyslow)
2. Rook Endings (Löwenfisch und Smyslow) [Is this the same book but in English?]
3. Practical Rook Endings (Mednis)

Books on rook endings I have read so far:

-Secrets of Rook Endings (Nunn)
-Dworetskij Endgame Manual (Dworetskij)
-The Survival Guide to Rook Endgames (Emms)
-A Practical Guide to Rook Endgames (Minew)
-Practical Endgame Play (Griwas)

Where do you find these three? Most seem sold out and the chess shops even do not have them. Are these the same thing or a good addition to Nunn's book, Dworetskij Endgame Manual, Müller/Lamprecht, ECE Volume II? Or am I just fine with these sources?

I saw some book called 1000 Turmendspiele by Joszéf Pintér. What kind of book is it? Is it like ECE?

I am very busy nowadays. So my chess plan is very limited. I cannot play for a long time so I plan to spend the rest of the year mastering rook endings. Then I continue to just trying to improve the rest of the endgames.

If you have other suggestions, feel free. I have a working knowledge of German, French, Dutch, and some others if there are good rook endgame books in those languages (especially German).

*I must note: I have ordered Praxis des Turmendspiels (Kortschnoj) and Geheimnisse der Turmendspiele (Smsyslow) from eurochess.de, last September. But to be honest I have no idea where the hell is my order. That is another story.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #19 - 08/06/15 at 22:16:46
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I still have Endgame Play ready to read, probably in a while. I was planning to go all-out detail on the rook stuff first though. I still have that Nunn book on the rook endings which still leaves me interested. It does look like overdoing it, but spending some time on that tome at least seeing the patterns over and over would probably help. Or maybe I am just wacko to like these rook ending stuff too much Smiley

Secrets of Rook Endings
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #18 - 08/06/15 at 12:07:04
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Am I totally wrong or shouldn't a thorough study of Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual combined with Aagaard's Endgame Play be sufficient for a 2300+ player to cover more or less all aspects of the endgame excellently? The nice thing with the two books is that they show so many errors which very strong players have made.

I assume that to be really good at rook endgames, you have to master pawn-endgames as you otherwise don't know when to exchange rooks. At the moment, I'm reading the chapter on Rubinstein in Learn from the Legends about rook endgames
which is truly enjoyful for me  Smiley
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #17 - 08/05/15 at 14:51:45
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/05/15 at 13:56:30:
Honestly, I don't see the use of Nunn's book, except as a thought experiment. How many pages would it take to print an endgame table base?

You would probably only get marginally more utility from Nunn than from Nalimov.

I'd move on to other works personally.


I agree - for endgame enthusiasts who really want to break that kind of stuff down, by all means. But for practical players, I think Nunn's work is simply too much. If you find that you enjoy the practical rook endings shown towards the end of Nunn, there's more material of that nature in the first companion volume to Flear by Efstratios Grivas. He covers the vast majority of common pawn configurations in rook endings - 1 vs. 0, 2 vs. 1, 3 vs. 2, 4 vs. 3 all on one side, and 3 vs. 3 + a-pawn, b-pawn, c-pawn, etc...Not intended as a theoretical work, more to give players solid guidelines as to how to approach the positions.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #16 - 08/05/15 at 13:56:30
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Honestly, I don't see the use of Nunn's book, except as a thought experiment. How many pages would it take to print an endgame table base?

You would probably only get marginally more utility from Nunn than from Nalimov.

I'd move on to other works personally.
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #15 - 08/05/15 at 07:50:42
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I am about ¾e done with The Survival Guide to Rook Endings of John Emms. I think that my next reading is either Kortschnoj or Secrets of Rook Endings by John Nunn. I have the Flear book for sometime in the future.

But I wonder, this Nunn book is very long and detailed. RP v R interests me, but how should this book ble read? I really doubt anyone can remember all of this analyses of 352 pages. If read it, should you just try to see the patterns and keep those in mind?
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #14 - 07/18/15 at 23:23:02
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I don't have a clear picture of the contents of the Shereshevsky books in terms of specific material, sorry. They are organized by strategic theme (Endgame Strategy) or opening/middlegame structure (Mastering the Endgame 1+2).

But regarding double rook endings, there is actually a brief chapter on that in the Emms book. And a longer one in Practical Endgame Play: Beyond the Basics by Flear. These are the two main sources I'm aware of for RR vs RR.

P.S. if you study the Emms book after Dvoretsky + Korchnoi, you will see a lot of the same stuff repeated. Might be an idea to have a look at the book before you buy, to see how much "new" material you're really getting (apart from the RR vs RR chapter, I'm not sure).
  

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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #13 - 07/18/15 at 22:11:29
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Nunn's Secrets book is quite interesting but I wonder how to apply everything into a practical game. Like on page 192-193 there is an analyses of how to win with R + knightP v. R, where you can win in 60 moves. I do not doubt that it is helpful, but I doubt that anyone remembers something like that, especially if they happen to have this on the board after 4 hours of playing and can do it.

Theory is good, so if I can get that Emms book that might be the next after Dworjetskij and Kortschnoj. Which is the title of the Shereshewskij book that deals with stuff like double rook endings?
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #12 - 07/18/15 at 15:35:39
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Maybe I was wrong to call Nunn's Chess Endings comprehensive. It isn't really a systematic treatment of theory at all, but rather a collection of often quite tactical situations taken from practical play, which require accurate calculation and still illustrate plenty of common themes. So it should be a good add-on to a study of, for example, the Dvoretsky, Emms or Averbakh/Kopaev material, since it duplicates very little of it. Of course there are other sources for tactical rook endings, like Minev (much more basic, but good) and Van Perlo (which I haven't seen, but everybody seems to love it).

I notice most of the Rook endings section of NCE 2 has quite reduced material, up to just 2 pawns vs 1. But there are some 70 pages with more complicated examples at the end.

If you're looking for "untheoretical" material with up to 6-7 pawns each, maybe you'll need to look for examples in more strategic endgame books, like the ones by Müller/Pajeken, Lars Bo Hansen, Hellsten and Shereshesky (including his two with Slutsky). Most theoretical books, like Emms and Averbakh/Kopaev, go up to 4 pawns vs 3, with just a few examples of endings with more pawns.
  

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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #11 - 07/18/15 at 03:37:36
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I tihnk that I might go through the Rook Endings chapter in Dworetskij Vol 4 more in depth again before doing all of the Kortschnoj. Might look at Emms book if more time left. Is Nunn's Chess Endings Vol 2 cover the more complicated stuff like Caro-Kann-lig 2R+6P v. 2R+6P?

I defended few months ago a long rook endgame that was because my opponent kept trying to win a drawn endgame. It went from R+3P v. R+2P to R+2P v. R+P then eventually R+P v. R. I think that this maybe the only rook ending that I played in this year. Fairly basic principles, knight pawn = passive defence, and then I put the rook behind his pawn and infinite checks. Unfortunately I got into this mess because I destroyed my position around move 15 in another game with White in the Slaw and ended up a pawn down, but that is another story!
« Last Edit: 07/18/15 at 05:02:30 by DenVerdsligeRejsende »  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #10 - 07/18/15 at 00:17:47
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I haven't studied any book on rook endings in depth, but of the ones I own or have looked at, the most complete/comprehensive are Averbakh and Kopaev's volume 5 from Comprehensive Chess Endings and Nunn's Chess Endings, volume 2.

Nunn's other book Secrets of Rook Endings isn't really comprehensive, since it's exclusively on Rook + pawn vs Rook, though Nunn helpfully points out the most important positions for practical play in every section, so it's possible to study only those. The Averbakh/Kopaev volume now comes with lots of "potentially out-of-date" warnings. Convekta released Comprehensive Chess Endings with updated analysis on CD some time in the 2000s, but it seems to be impossible to find now.

Honestly I suspect you'd be on a strong GM level in rook endings with the Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual chapter plus the Emms and Korchnoi books (though these two should probably also be checked against the most recent tablebases), if you knew all of that by heart.
  

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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #9 - 07/17/15 at 23:24:14
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Well this is rare. I was reading the thread here and went down to clean the garage like every week. Then I found that I had a copy of the Nunn book (352 pages) in a box, which I never noticed for over a decade. I think that I must have bought it at a tournament as a junior, or someone bought it for me, because I do not remember buying this recently.

I am not sure how to use it, because it seems like a dense phone book. I guess I could just read it cover to cover, after I finish Kortschnojs book of course.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #8 - 07/17/15 at 20:28:20
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Seeing these references to "(really) mastering" Rook endings, one thing I think of is the fact that John Nunn wrote a 350-page book on R+P vs. R.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #7 - 07/17/15 at 15:43:27
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Rook endings are the most common of all endgames (except pawn endings). And, if you really master Rook endings you can steer many of your games into a R ending. So yes, if you want to break 2400, it's a good idea to master R endings.

Having said that, I am still convinced that one of Magnus Carlsen's biggest weaknesses is in technical R endings. He's lost and drawn quite a few of those technical games that he could have drawn or won.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #6 - 07/17/15 at 12:56:23
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/17/15 at 02:50:08:
I do admit that I quite like rook endings though. Or is it a misconception that I feel that to break into 2400+ for example, man must be a master of rook endgames?

You can probably look at your last hundred games or so, estimate how many half-points you would have gained from knowing rook endgames a bit better (and applying that knowledge successfully!), and figure out what the effect would have been on your rating.

I note that all the rook endgame books are filled with terrible blunders by 2600+ rated players, who somehow got to that level while still making big mistakes in relatively elementary positions.

Quote:
I do admit that I quite like rook endings though.

That seems like a good enough reason on its own to study them further!
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #5 - 07/17/15 at 02:50:08
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I think that they are both the same book, 2002 the English translation of the German book (I think that Kortschnoj speaks German?).

Praxis des Turmendspiels:
http://www.amazon.de/Praxis-Turmendspiels-Viktor-L-Kortschnoi/dp/3283002878

I read Dworetskij Endgame Manual both 1st and 4th Editions, but I was looking for detailed rook endgame manual. If I read Kortschnoj's book, Minew, is the books by Emms, Nunn, Ward also necessary? Also is Lewenfish and Smyslow's book still relevant? And Mednis? I know that endgame theory and concepts usually do not change, like mathematics, but sometimes some assessments change over time.

Is it too much to study so much the rook endings than the other endings? I used to be weak in these endings until maybe around 2002 or so when I was 2000 ELO, when I was however at best just okay in rook endings. I do admit that I quite like rook endings though. Or is it a misconception that I feel that to break into 2400+ for example, man must be a master of rook endgames?
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #4 - 07/12/15 at 05:50:18
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It is by Olms and says 2nd edition 2002. I guess the first was the german edition. I think I got it at Schackhandeln in Stockholm quite a long time ago.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #3 - 07/12/15 at 05:30:50
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The first chapter of the Korchnoi book is excellent as a primer. But then he goes into deep analysis, and doesn't make anything easy for the readers. If you're really patient and really dedicated, you can get a great deal out of Korchnoi's book.

Otherwise, there's Dvoretesky's Endgame Manual. Also, the Levenfish and Smyslov book, Rook Endings, is still excellent. There have been some important revisions to that work, but they still covered most of the critical positions.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #2 - 07/11/15 at 21:15:47
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Is that Korthscnoj book a different book, or same as the German book Praxis des Turmendspiels? I saw a German book by Olms long time ago as a junior but never bought it. Any endgame book by Kortschnoj is bound to be great. I wonder where they sell that one.
  
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Re: Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
Reply #1 - 07/10/15 at 07:50:38
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I can't really tell what a good book on the subject is, because I have planned on studying rook endgames for some time, but never done it. However, I have some that I will read, hopefully eventually...

Korchnoi - Practical Rook Endings - a bit too complex for me right now, but has material on what you ask for.

The rest I haven't looked at yet -
Emms - The Survival Guide to Rook Endings
Nunn - Secrets of Rook Endings
Ward - Starting Out: Rook Endgames

I guess there should be material enough in some of these, as well as maybe in a more general endgame book.
  
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Complete and Comprehensive Rook Endgamesbook
07/10/15 at 06:41:00
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What is a good book that is focussed exclusively on rook endgames, that can be useful for 2300+, going from the basic known stuff like Philidor and Lucena but also having complicated examples with rook + 5 pawns vs. rook + 5 pawns? Basically rook endgames that just came from a middlegame.

As a Caro-Kann player, stuff like double rook endgames like 2R6P vs. 2R6P is not uncommon. Which kind of book discusses this stuff in addition to the simpler theoretical positions?
  
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