(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › 1. e4 e5 - Non-Spanish › Philidor › Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
(Moderators: Smyslov_Fan, Jupp53, trw)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line? (Read 17697 times)
fjd
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 551
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 09/22/16
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #20 - 09/30/17 at 03:44:09
Post Tools
Well this doesn't involve sacrificing a pawn, for one. From what I remember, White essentially gets a tempo up version of the line 3...e5 4 Nge2 Be7 5 g3 (with an eventual h3 and g4) - somewhat similar to 6 h3 vs 6 g3 in the Najdorf.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GabrielGale
Senior Member
****
Offline


Who was Thursday?

Posts: 471
Location: Sydney
Joined: 02/28/08
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #19 - 09/30/17 at 02:04:22
Post Tools
Pardon my ignorance and not having a look at the databases of games, but is this an improvement or does it lead to the same position as Shirov's 5 g4?? (which from a quick look at McDonald's SO:1 e4! which a ChessPubber reminded me justbthe other day). Shirt's 5 g4 will have ...e5 and Nf3 as extra moves ......
Thanks for the enlightenment in advance ......
  
http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1672
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #18 - 09/29/17 at 23:42:38
Post Tools
On the qualitychess blog John Shaw said 4.g4 is why he no longer plays the 3...Nbd7 move order.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1947
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #17 - 09/29/17 at 21:03:06
Post Tools
Quote:
4 g4! would do more to put me off, personally.

Having looked at this further, I'm rather tempted to agree ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fjd
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 551
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 09/22/16
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #16 - 09/23/17 at 15:33:46
Post Tools
4 g4! would do more to put me off, personally.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1947
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #15 - 09/22/17 at 22:00:16
Post Tools
Quote:
Yes, if Black prefers to be not so adventurous there is an earlier equalizing line also.

Could you say more here?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2916
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #14 - 10/31/16 at 12:46:42
Post Tools
Yes, if Black prefers to be not so adventurous there is an earlier equalizing line also.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #13 - 10/28/16 at 09:22:40
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 10/26/16 at 11:52:50:
fling wrote on 10/26/16 at 09:20:06:
Do you mean 12...Ba6 instead of 12 0-0 as in the game in the OP (Sprenger-Galdunts)?

In that case, I don't see the big improvement, unfortunately. Ftacnik commented on the game Polgar-Rivas Pastor, 1993, by giving 11 ...bxc6 and then 12 0-0-0 Ba6, but continuing this line, there is 13. Qd2, and White is clearly better after 13. Bxf1 14. Bf2!


Yes something like that. 14.Bf2 is a good move not easy to find OTB, but then simply ...0-0 15.Rxf1 Qc7 etc. when Black has a safer king and active play for a pawn, probably the engines say White is better but it is not an easy position to handle for him still.


I agree, even though the engines gives +/-, it seems like White's position isn't easy to play anyway due to the relative safety of the kings.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #12 - 10/28/16 at 08:25:40
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 10/27/16 at 20:44:28:
fling wrote on 10/27/16 at 10:35:12:
But Black's king is not that safe either. White continues 16. Qd3, moves the queen away from the d-file, to e.g. f3, h3 or f5, and Black can't have anything for the pawn. Black can't grab the f-pawn after this either, as 16...Qxf4 17. Be3 and then 18. Qf5+ looks horrible for Black.


eh - Qf5+?? Black has castled kingside, not over on the queenside, that wouldnt be wise.


Ah, I see. Sorry! I couldn't see the compensation, but it makes sense now  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2916
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #11 - 10/27/16 at 20:44:28
Post Tools
fling wrote on 10/27/16 at 10:35:12:
But Black's king is not that safe either. White continues 16. Qd3, moves the queen away from the d-file, to e.g. f3, h3 or f5, and Black can't have anything for the pawn. Black can't grab the f-pawn after this either, as 16...Qxf4 17. Be3 and then 18. Qf5+ looks horrible for Black.


eh - Qf5+?? Black has castled kingside, not over on the queenside, that wouldnt be wise.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #10 - 10/27/16 at 10:35:12
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 10/26/16 at 11:52:50:
fling wrote on 10/26/16 at 09:20:06:
Do you mean 12...Ba6 instead of 12 0-0 as in the game in the OP (Sprenger-Galdunts)?

In that case, I don't see the big improvement, unfortunately. Ftacnik commented on the game Polgar-Rivas Pastor, 1993, by giving 11 ...bxc6 and then 12 0-0-0 Ba6, but continuing this line, there is 13. Qd2, and White is clearly better after 13. Bxf1 14. Bf2!


Yes something like that. 14.Bf2 is a good move not easy to find OTB, but then simply ...0-0 15.Rxf1 Qc7 etc. when Black has a safer king and active play for a pawn, probably the engines say White is better but it is not an easy position to handle for him still.


But Black's king is not that safe either. White continues 16. Qd3, moves the queen away from the d-file, to e.g. f3, h3 or f5, and Black can't have anything for the pawn. Black can't grab the f-pawn after this either, as 16...Qxf4 17. Be3 and then 18. Qf5+ looks horrible for Black.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2916
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #9 - 10/26/16 at 11:52:50
Post Tools
fling wrote on 10/26/16 at 09:20:06:
Do you mean 12...Ba6 instead of 12 0-0 as in the game in the OP (Sprenger-Galdunts)?

In that case, I don't see the big improvement, unfortunately. Ftacnik commented on the game Polgar-Rivas Pastor, 1993, by giving 11 ...bxc6 and then 12 0-0-0 Ba6, but continuing this line, there is 13. Qd2, and White is clearly better after 13. Bxf1 14. Bf2!


Yes something like that. 14.Bf2 is a good move not easy to find OTB, but then simply ...0-0 15.Rxf1 Qc7 etc. when Black has a safer king and active play for a pawn, probably the engines say White is better but it is not an easy position to handle for him still.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #8 - 10/26/16 at 09:20:06
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 09/29/16 at 11:28:22:
On the exd5 sideline mentioned in passing by Greet  12...Ba6 is a big improvement for Black.


Do you mean 12...Ba6 instead of 12 0-0 as in the game in the OP (Sprenger-Galdunts)?

In that case, I don't see the big improvement, unfortunately. Ftacnik commented on the game Polgar-Rivas Pastor, 1993, by giving 11 ...bxc6 and then 12 0-0-0 Ba6, but continuing this line, there is 13. Qd2, and White is clearly better after 13. Bxf1 14. Bf2!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2916
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #7 - 09/29/16 at 11:28:22
Post Tools
On the exd5 sideline mentioned in passing by Greet  12...Ba6 is a big improvement for Black.

Over the board those positions dont look very practical for White to play. He needs to find several only moves.

Apart from that there are even alternatives earlier on which completely equalize the game. I thought Andrew Greets book was absolutely brilliant, a modern masterpiece, but this was a weakpoint in it.
« Last Edit: 09/29/16 at 19:38:41 by Keano »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEH
God Member
*****
Offline


"Football is like Chess,
only without the dice."

Posts: 1456
Location: Reading
Joined: 09/22/05
Gender: Male
Re: Philidor with Nbd7 - Andrew Greet line?
Reply #6 - 09/29/16 at 02:53:12
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 09/28/16 at 21:25:39:
All very interesting but Greet recommends 8.e5 so a bit befuddled by the thread title.


Not that I really feel a need to defend my choice of thread titles, but I would hope that would be explained in my first post  Huh
  
Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge