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Normal Topic 5...0-0!? (Read 4537 times)
Menake Halonot
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Re: 5...0-0!?
Reply #8 - 08/13/15 at 12:13:38
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May be black can play ...Na5 in the near future, and if white plays f6 then black's light squared bishop becomes better. On f6 immediately, for example, black will probably play ...Bg4.
  
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RdC
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Re: 5...0-0!?
Reply #7 - 08/12/15 at 23:12:57
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MartinC wrote on 08/12/15 at 19:14:34:
Not half as sure of what black is doing in comparison - a touch short of good squares for his pieces. Doesn't seem terribly practical somehow.
                   



Bishop pair, it's something to work with. You aren't going to be mated if you control the dark squares round the King.

  
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MartinC
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Re: 5...0-0!?
Reply #6 - 08/12/15 at 19:14:34
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I'm not actually terribly thrilled about that final position for black either - white is going to get f6 in a move or two and (after Qe2 - f2 say). No idea what the objective evaluation is but black will definitely need to be rather careful or it could do some horrible damage.

Not half as sure of what black is doing in comparison - a touch short of good squares for his pieces. Doesn't seem terribly practical somehow.
  
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Menake Halonot
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Re: 5...0-0!?
Reply #5 - 08/12/15 at 12:51:58
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So after looking a bit deeper even the computer says white is better after 10. f5 in the 7. Rf1 line. But black can play 7...d6 as RdC said, and then on 8. f5, 8... Ne3 seems logical:



It looks fine for black. By the way, the only game I found with 7. Rf1 went 7... d6 8. Nd5 and black missed 8... Nxh2. http://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=1074089
  
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RdC
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Re: 5...0-0!?
Reply #4 - 08/12/15 at 09:35:41
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The line has been known for some while and there are a few examples out there. In practice 7. Rf1 isn't played, but if it was, it can be met by 7. .. d6.

This game shows how it can go horribly wrong.



As indicated earlier in the thread, the improvement is to take on f4 at move 8.
  
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MartinC
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Re: 5...0-0!?
Reply #3 - 08/12/15 at 08:26:44
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It no doubt gets a mention in some book somewhere? This position is definitely dangerous for black:



Maybe b4 first or something odd. Its the sort of thing that computers can still get wrong - a slowish but rather hard to defend attack from white.

The white king is pretty safe behind that center.

Yes, Bd4 keeps black alive for a bit but I'd want to very carefully check black's defensive resources before playing it.
  
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Menake Halonot
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Re: 5...0-0!?
Reply #2 - 08/11/15 at 20:27:19
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But White's king isn't so safe too I think. May be I'm wrong, but after 9...dxc3 in the Rf1 line I don't see how white can effectively attack black's king. f5 could be answered by ...Bd4 for example.
The interesting thing is that this variation seems not bad for black, and I haven't seen it analyzed in any book, nor on this forum before.
Do you know of any analysis of it on the internet or in books?
  
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MartinC
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Re: 5...0-0!?
Reply #1 - 08/11/15 at 19:01:28
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You're running some very real risks of long term kingside attacks in some of those lines. 7 Rf1 especially perhaps.

Might be happy with that of course Smiley
  
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Menake Halonot
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5...0-0!?
08/11/15 at 18:12:35
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Hi Everyone!
after the moves
1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. d3 Bc5 5. f4 what do you think about the 5... 0-0 line?
I checked it a bit with my computer and the following lines seem to make sense:

6. Nf3 (6. f5 Nd4) 6... Ng4 and then
a) 7. Ng5  d5 8. Nxd5 (8. Bxd5 Bf2+; 8. exd5 Bf2+) 8... exf4 9.Bxf4 (9. h3 Qxg5) 9... Nce5.
b) 7. Qe2 Bf2+ 8. Kf1 Nd4 9. Nxd4 Bxd4 10. Qxg4 (10. h3 Nf6 11.fxe5 Bxe5) 10... d5 11. f5 dxc4 12. dxc4.
c) 7. Rf1 Nd4 8. Nxd4 exd4 9. Qxg4 (9.Nd5 Qh4+) 9... dxc3.

It's only a start, so I don't give evaluations, but it seems that black is at least equal everywhere.
  
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