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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni? (Read 10831 times)
kylemeister
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #16 - 08/15/15 at 05:22:54
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Speaking of exchange sacs, the one with 10. Bf4 Ne4 11. Nxe4 Rxe4 12. Nd2 Rxf4 is quite old, but one of the most recent games between GMs went 10...Bf5 11. Nd2 Nh5 12. Be3 Nd7 13. a4 Rxe3 14. fe Qg5 15. Rf4 Qe7 16. Rxf5.   
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #15 - 08/15/15 at 03:07:45
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RoleyPoley wrote on 08/14/15 at 19:09:15:
Didnt Martin Petrov's book on the benoni find a good line against Avrukhs recommendation?


In Awrukh's 1A book from this April 2015, he recommends 10. Lf4 instead of 10. Sd2. The main lines are with the exchange sacrifice after exchanging knights on e4 then taking on b2 with the rook.

In a practical game I feel that theoretically White must have a slight edge, but in practical play I get destroyed with both lines.  In a game you always have to watch out for any sort of counterplay that can balloon into big trouble, like any sort of battery with ...Le5 and attacking h2 after the sacrifice, and the usual ...b5 plans too. I think that there was a game in the US Women Championchip where White lost because Black got pawn all the way on b2.
  
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yolocounty
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #14 - 08/15/15 at 01:39:07
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I have avoided the Nimzo against specialists by 3 g3 and run into 3 ...c5.  I played a couple of Fianchetto Benonis but then decided that 4. Nf3 promises more than 4. d5 in a practical game.
  
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RoleyPoley
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #13 - 08/14/15 at 19:09:15
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From memory i dont recall any books or videos for black prior to Avrukh's consider the Fianchetto variation to be much to worry about. I dont know if anything has since changed.

Didnt Martin Petrov's book on the benoni find a good line against Avrukhs recommendation?

  

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kylemeister
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #12 - 08/14/15 at 15:24:38
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Egregious.  Of course, with a little more knowledge, White can take longer to mess up:
http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/10/sep14.htm#ben
Smiley

(@Bibs, Tony:  thx!)
  
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #11 - 08/14/15 at 13:30:29
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Bibs wrote on 08/14/15 at 10:47:10:
Questions for the sake of questions.



My thoughts are that specialist 1. d4 2. c4 players will meet the Benoni with some form of set up that involves an early h3. That is once a Volga Gambit has been ruled out. Those wishing for more violence will employ the f4, Bb5+ line known as the Taimanov or Flick Knife.

The Fianchetto line is solid and always has been. Black has to know some ideas on how to meet it and it's important because of the possibility of transpositions from fianchetto lines of the Kings Indian.

I wouldn't say that White is completely safe. Here's a recent game where a relatively inexperienced opponent played both e4 and the fianchetto and was a little worse within 9 moves.



The result of any game in a Fianchetto Benoni is likely to be influenced by which player has the better understanding of the unbalanced but equal positions that arise between moves 10 and 20. From that viewpoint, it's not as good as the modern h3 lines for White as Black is in danger of wipeout from what I see of these.
  
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MartinC
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #10 - 08/14/15 at 11:01:03
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Nice Smiley You'd have hoped they might have sorted that sort of thing out mind!

Guess its some sort of self reassurance thing. Could of course answer all those questions with a 1/2 - 1/2 evaluation Wink
  
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Bibs
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #9 - 08/14/15 at 10:47:10
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Such questions really baffle me. What does OP wish to gain from this?
No help for chess study at all.
Questions for the sake of questions.

What shoes do you wear for chess?
Is it lucky to sleep facing North before a game, in a field, wearing my grandmothers pajamas?
Should I take the bus, or are trains better for chess tournaments?
When you play, do you switch hands for different sides of the board? Does it save you time? How much time? How many more days in my parents basement could I have if I played 547 games OTB per year?

I just read this by the way, reminded me of this:
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/aug/14/how-probable-is-probable
  
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TN
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #8 - 08/14/15 at 08:52:59
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Marc Benford wrote on 08/13/15 at 22:40:02:
Hi,

What is the theoretical state of the Benoni Defense Fianchetto Variation?

How big is White’s advantage in the Fianchetto Benoni?
Is it bigger, as big or smaller than White’s usual first move advantage against good Black openings like QGD, QGA, Slav, Semi-Slav, KID, Grünfeld?
Is it bigger, as big or smaller than White’s advantage in the Symmetrical English?
Is it bigger, as big or smaller than White’s advantage in the Reversed Sicilian?
(If I'm not mistaken: White's advantage in the Symmetrical English is less than White's advantage in the "QGD, QGA, Slav, Semi-Slav, KID, Grünfeld". And White's advantage in the Reversed Sicilian is less than White's advantage in the Symmetrical English.)

Avrukh recently wrote a good book on the Fianchetto Benoni, he seems to believe that White gets to keep his usual first move advantage.
But what do other titled players think about the Fianchetto Benoni?
Before Avrukh published his book, most people seemed to agree that Black gets instant equality in the Fianchetto Benoni... But what about today?
Is the Fianchetto Benoni just a passing fad?


A little better for White, quite small, larger, slightly bigger, a fair bit bigger, most like it as White or Black for playing for a win, today everything is playable, no it's here to stay forever.

Any further questions? Cheesy
  

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Lauri Torni
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #7 - 08/14/15 at 08:28:45
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Marc Benford wrote on 08/13/15 at 22:40:02:
Hi,

What is the theoretical state of the Benoni Defense Fianchetto Variation?

How big is White’s advantage in the Fianchetto Benoni?
Is it bigger, as big or smaller than White’s usual first move advantage against good Black openings like QGD, QGA, Slav, Semi-Slav, KID, Grünfeld?
Is it bigger, as big or smaller than White’s advantage in the Symmetrical English?
Is it bigger, as big or smaller than White’s advantage in the Reversed Sicilian?
(If I'm not mistaken: White's advantage in the Symmetrical English is less than White's advantage in the "QGD, QGA, Slav, Semi-Slav, KID, Grünfeld". And White's advantage in the Reversed Sicilian is less than White's advantage in the Symmetrical English.)

Avrukh recently wrote a good book on the Fianchetto Benoni, he seems to believe that White gets to keep his usual first move advantage.
But what do other titled players think about the Fianchetto Benoni?
Before Avrukh published his book, most people seemed to agree that Black gets instant equality in the Fianchetto Benoni... But what about today?
Is the Fianchetto Benoni just a passing fad?


Theoretically white might squeeze a small edge but most black players love to meet it. Even  I (Nimzo player) have sometimes played 3.g3 c5.
  

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TonyRo
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #6 - 08/14/15 at 01:58:57
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Bibs wrote on 08/14/15 at 01:34:41:
While here btw Kylemeister, I must say how hugely impressed I am with your knowledge of older chess literature. Much respect.

Agreed - kylemeister's always clutch there.
  
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Bibs
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #5 - 08/14/15 at 01:34:41
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Is that the same as a bread bin (BrE)? A place for storing bread?
Then, oooh, I'd say much smaller.
While here btw Kylemeister, I must say how hugely impressed I am with your knowledge of older chess literature. Much respect.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #4 - 08/14/15 at 01:11:00
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Ah, so not bigger than a breadbox.
(a US reference)
  
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Bibs
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #3 - 08/14/15 at 00:57:48
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It's small.
It may help to think in terms of the animal kingdom.
Bigger than a bug, but certainly much smaller than a mouse.
The Size of a Cow, by The WonderStuff, is not pertinent in this regard:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=swCdJWCYamM
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: What's the theoretical state of Fianchetto Benoni?
Reply #2 - 08/13/15 at 23:30:38
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I personally think that the Fianchetto Variation should give a slight edge, but practical play is different. I have been destroyed in this variation as White against the Benoni in all sorts of time control, but it might be just me Smiley
  
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