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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID (Read 17712 times)
FirebrandX
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #13 - 09/03/15 at 13:17:23
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I like to put these proposed repertoires to the cc database test, and I have to say I'm not entirely impressed with the performance of 12...Re8 in the line given:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. b4 a5 10. Ba3 axb4 11. Bxb4 b6 12. a4 Re8

And my database shows black doing VERY poorly against 13. Re1 and almost as poorly against 13. Qd3. When I look at the 13. Re1 wins, they appear to be the kind that maintain white's lasting advantage while positional play causes black to have to try and plug holes in the proverbial dam until it falls apart.

Here's and example cc game that demonstrates this:





  
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kylemeister
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #12 - 08/24/15 at 05:37:56
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Well surely 9...a5 can be described as one of the two traditional main moves, and both it and 9...Nh5 are principled in their way.

Another note about 12...Re8 -- it was treated as the main move (via 10. Ba3 b6 11. ba Rxa5 12. Bb4 Ra8 13. a4 Re8) by Panczyk and Ilczuk in The Classical King's Indian Uncovered from 2009.  ("Developed by the Latvian grandmaster, Zigurds Lanka, in the late 1990s; the idea is to protect the d-pawn with ...Bf8 and play ...c7-c5.")
  
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #11 - 08/24/15 at 04:37:25
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Interesting.  I had always thought of 9...a5 as a perfectly reasonable way for black to ensure he suffered for as long as possible.  Apparently that isn't the case?

I really just don't know, although if you'd care to debate 9...Nh5 10. Re1 vs. 10. g3 I might have something useful to say.  I always thought that 9...Nh5 was just the move, despite 9...a5's GM adherents, since it seems more "principled," but it isn't like you're going to crush people out of the opening with 9...Nh5 either.  The Bayonet is always a slog.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #10 - 08/23/15 at 18:22:00
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The main tactical idea is that Black can now meet a5 with ...c5, as taking en passant and on d6 no longer hits the rook. The second idea is that once Black plays ...c5 and recaptured on c6 with the knight, ...Nd4 is harder to deal with, as captures activate the rook.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #9 - 08/23/15 at 17:18:30
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Anyone care to explain the ideas behind 12...Re8 to me?
  
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gramsci
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #8 - 08/23/15 at 07:48:32
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I've finally bought the DVD. Confirmed, it's about the Lanka / Berg's line:
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. b4 a5 10. Ba3 axb4 11. Bxb4 b6 12. a4 Re8
Very interesting indeed. Another weapon for my arsenal.
  
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TN
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #7 - 08/18/15 at 21:53:54
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I put a lot of work into 12...Re8 and honestly couldn't find an edge for White. Also in the Silva-Collins game Black seems fine in the position after 17...Bd7 - Black is exchanging his bad dark-squared bishop, White can't easily make inroads on the queenside with b7 easy to cover and the a-pawn blockaded, plus Black has the d4-square to compensate White's grip over e4. I know the engine tends to slightly favour White in such positions but suggesting a good plan is another matter. Actually I would be tempted by 17...Bxc1 as well.
  

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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #6 - 08/18/15 at 19:44:11
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Golubev also spent some time on this variation in his book Understanding the King's Indian from 2006.

Besides the several games by Lanka, Golubev has also tried the line several times himself. Both are more recognized authorities on the KID than Berg and apparently played it earlier...

Btw. players like Alexei Shirov and Viktor Bologan have trained with Lanka, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are games by them as well.
  

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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #5 - 08/18/15 at 17:12:43
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Fllg wrote on 08/18/15 at 16:18:08:
Going into "Kylemeister-Mode"  Wink I have to say that this is not Berg´s invention. I recall some games by Zigurds Lanka at the end of the 1990´s. There might even have been an article about it in NiC around the time by Lanka but I´m not really sure about this.  Smiley


I think you may be referring to "Lanka's shocking 12...Re8" by Golubev in YB 52 (1999)    Smiley
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #4 - 08/18/15 at 17:10:45
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Fllg wrote on 08/18/15 at 16:18:08:
I have to say that this is not Berg´s invention.

Grin

I knew one of the history police would chime in here, but I reject your counterargument on the grounds that Berg has played this variation the most, and is the one who really legitimized it in my opinion. The only other guy who I really associate with this line is the Chinese GM Jiangchuan Ye, who played it in maybe 4-6 games against the very best - I recall games against Bacrot, Van Wely, and Kasimdhanoz, but maybe I'm off there...
  
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #3 - 08/18/15 at 16:18:08
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TonyRo wrote on 08/18/15 at 04:29:18:
PS - After 9...a5 10.Ba3 I like Berg's 10...axb4 11.Bxb4 b6 12.a4 Re8!?


Going into "Kylemeister-Mode"  Wink I have to say that this is not Berg´s invention. I recall some games by Zigurds Lanka at the end of the 1990´s. There might even have been an article about it in NiC around the time by Lanka but I´m not really sure about this.  Smiley
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #2 - 08/18/15 at 04:29:18
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To add another layer to this post, when I looked at 9...a5 I thought that 10.bxa5! was actually somewhat annoying. Not sure I ever found a really convincing improvement over L.Silva-S.Collins, Lisbon 2014, which continued:



Yes, Black won, but to me White looks to be for choice after 17.Bd3.

PS - After 9...a5 10.Ba3 I like Berg's 10...axb4 11.Bxb4 b6 12.a4 Re8!?
  
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Re: Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
Reply #1 - 08/18/15 at 02:37:42
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Me too. Interested as Marin's Pirc DVDS were impressive and he does seem to be a very good author.
Anyone?
  
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gramsci
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Marin's Anti-Bayonet-Attack in the KID
08/17/15 at 08:46:31
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I'm thinking of buying this ChessBase DVD but first I'd like to know if it's worth enough and what's the reccomendation against 9...a5 10. Ba3. Has anyone bought it?
  
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