Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books (Read 17262 times)
Jupp53
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #16 - 10/26/15 at 19:30:01
Post Tools
Sorry - I was offline the last days. So there is some delay.

First I have to correct myself, my memory was wrong. The recommendation comes from Stefan Kindermann, a well known GM at least in the German speaking chess community.

In the following I refer to the 3rd German edition of Dworetzkij's book.

Preface by Mark Dworetzkij(=MD) in summuary for the question of this topic, pp VII-XI

The basic idea is starting with typical mostly elementary positions. MD tested those in training sessions with players of different strength. So the book gives:

- Typical positions

Printed in big diagrams (I give some examples beyond so you can compare this with your book) commented with bigger letters.

- Endgame ideas

These ideas are written in the 3rd german ed. in grey and italicised. They are in the commends to all kinds of diagrams.

- Repetition of the learned

This is done via practical game examples and exercises from different sources.

- Analysis

Mostly relying on mistakes of earlier analysis showing.

- Order of the material

This is mostly traditional with some deviations from the traditional paths, b.e. Queen endings near pawn endings to judge some concrete pawn endings better.


Stefan Kindermann writes for the editorial office, p.XII:

Exercises are the best way to learn. The attitude is important. The positions chosen by MD are often difficult even for grandmasters. So it's not important to solve correctly but to work on the material to get some light bulb moments [correct English? - German "Aha-Erlebnis"].

Several study circles are useful. The book can accompagny the player on several levels of his chess career

In the first circle start with the big diagrams and the associated comments and the grey text of the book. Then study the small diagrams.

(End of summary)

To give you the opportunity to compare this with your edition beside the text I give here a short description of the first big diagrams:

Chapter 1 Pawn Endings

1.1 W: Kd5, Pd4 B: Kd7 - marked keysquares c6,d6,e6

1.2 W: Kb6, Pb5 B: Kb8 - marked keysquares a6,a7, b7,c7,c6

1.7 W: Kb5 Pa4,c4 B: Kb7 Pb6 - Black to move

1.9 Study Mattison 1918

1.10 Study Drtina 1907 (Dedrle 1921)

Chapter 5 - Different color bishops

5.2 W: Ke4 Bd2 Pe4, f4 B: Ke7 Ba4 - Black to move

I hope this gives you enough material to compare with your edition.
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
proustiskeen
God Member
*****
Offline


Hello from Omaha!

Posts: 678
Joined: 08/11/08
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #15 - 10/23/15 at 20:37:04
Post Tools
@Jupp - can you tell us more about Muller's recommendation? In the English version there are key positions printed in blue ink. Would those be the equivalent?
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #14 - 10/23/15 at 14:02:02
Post Tools
The thing about learning the Vancura position is that once you've learned it, you can use that knowledge to steer the game to that position. If you don't know it, it probably won't occur by accident. I've used the Vancura position several times to salvage draws in games.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3272
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #13 - 10/22/15 at 18:45:24
Post Tools
Jupp53 wrote on 10/22/15 at 16:55:37:


That's just what keeps me off buying and studying Silman's endgame book. The states youth trainer U14 and younger teaches the Vancura position directly after Philidor and Lucena. And if you do it right it is understandable for players under club rating average, which is 1500 btw.

I'm sure the trainer has his reason, and the Vancura position(s) is not necesarily that difficult to understand, but to my thinking the point is there are a number of moves to remember, and it's rare enough that there must be many more useful things to study at 1500 level (tactics and basic middlegame strategy, for example). Silman uses the same argument to omit coverage of the (surely easier than Vancura) mate with B+N vs king from the book altogether - it's just too rare in practice to be worth it! But that omission has been criticized of course.

I've gotten to 2200, and while I know the basic idea of keeping the king on g7/h7 and switching the rook to f6 to check from the side, I always forget the details beyond that (which positions are drawn and lost, when exactly Black has to make the switch, etc.). I can't recall ever having it in a game.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #12 - 10/22/15 at 16:55:37
Post Tools
dfan wrote on 10/21/15 at 19:28:21:
I'm not a fan of Silman's writing style, but one nice thing about his book (if you're not a master) is that it is organized by rating and not by endgame type. If you're 1500, you shouldn't be reading Dvoretsky cover to cover (though I've seen 1500s try!), you should be learning the techniques that actually matter to you right now. Rare is the author who will say "Eh, you don't really need to know about the Vancura position, come back when you're 2200."


That's just what keeps me off buying and studying Silman's endgame book. The states youth trainer U14 and younger teaches the Vancura position directly after Philidor and Lucena. And if you do it right it is understandable for players under club rating average, which is 1500 btw.

And Karsten Müller recommends reading the Dworetski manual in a special way, which is good for all levels from 1200 on. In my edition of the manual it's the 222 large diagrams first, then the complete book.

@TO:

As I have picked up some endgame knowledge here and there I cannot seriously answer your questions. All the books of your selection are in my bookshelf and maybe that's the mistake. Probably you have to pick one, from my impression Müller or Dworetzki or Fine, and go through it from cover to cover.

Atm my endgame training is the Smyslow/Löwenfisch rook endgame book with going through it. Finally I found a studying method giving me more fun than simply going through the diagrams otb or reading.

So my opinion is: Take the book you like most. Find the method you like most. It's personal. (Even if Silman fits best to you, who am I to disrespect this?)
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dfan
God Member
*****
Offline


"When you see a bad move,
look for a better one"

Posts: 766
Location: Boston
Joined: 10/04/05
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #11 - 10/21/15 at 19:28:21
Post Tools
I'm not a fan of Silman's writing style, but one nice thing about his book (if you're not a master) is that it is organized by rating and not by endgame type. If you're 1500, you shouldn't be reading Dvoretsky cover to cover (though I've seen 1500s try!), you should be learning the techniques that actually matter to you right now. Rare is the author who will say "Eh, you don't really need to know about the Vancura position, come back when you're 2200."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
katar
Senior Member
****
Offline


look another year went
by

Posts: 458
Location: LA
Joined: 09/21/05
Gender: Male
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #10 - 10/21/15 at 17:12:55
Post Tools
Sgambetto wrote on 10/21/15 at 16:10:02:
I am curious to know what do you think about Silman's Complete Endgame Course: From Beginner To Master, it's the only endgame book I own so I cannot make comparison. It is quite hard to me, but I always thought that maybe it's because studying endgames it is hard. Smiley

Silman's is a fine/worthy book although not among my favorites. I long ago sold my copy.
The truth is that the "best" endgame book is the one that you actually read.  It may come down to the texture of the pages or the size of the typeface being easy on your eyes.  I am by no means the first person to quote that sentence (i.e., "the best book is the one you actually read").  I first saw it at the Kenilworthian Chess Club website by Chess Expert and University Professor Michael Goeller.  There is a tendency to agonize over designing something "optimal" or "perfect"  when in fact i believe in emphasizing motivation and fun.  In chess like most disciplines it seems to me there is an intersection of tasks that are "fun" and tasks that are "nutritious" -- i would virtually always suggest concentrating study time at that intersection.  No one at this forum can tell you what to study because each person's enjoyment of chess is different.  yay!
  

2078 uscf
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Sgambetto
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/21/15
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #9 - 10/21/15 at 16:10:02
Post Tools
I am curious to know what do you think about Silman's Complete Endgame Course: From Beginner To Master, it's the only endgame book I own so I cannot make comparison. It is quite hard to me, but I always thought that maybe it's because studying endgames it is hard. Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chk
God Member
*****
Offline


a pawn is a pawn

Posts: 1063
Location: Athens
Joined: 10/26/06
Gender: Male
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #8 - 10/09/15 at 12:59:34
Post Tools
Yes, I also like Nunn's Understanding Chess Endgames, it generally covers the most important positions without leaving many gaps (based on the book's no. of pages & its target group).
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paddy
God Member
*****
Offline


The truth will out!

Posts: 965
Location: Manchester
Joined: 01/10/03
Gender: Male
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #7 - 10/08/15 at 11:42:45
Post Tools
The appearance of tablebases in the last few years has changed the assessment of some endings and strong engines have revealed a lot of mistakes in endgame manuals written in the pre-computer age, so I think that should rule out some of the books mentioned in this thread.

My top recommendations used to be Fundamental Chess Endings for precise positions and How to Play Chess Endgames for endgame strategy and technique. I also retain a fondness for De la Villa's and James Howell's books.

Recently though I've found John Nunn's three books very useful: Understanding Chess Endgames, Nunn's Chess Endings Vol. 1 and Vol 2.

For instance, when I wanted to find good material for coaching on queen endings I found Understanding Chess Endgames much more useful (clearer examples and explanations) than anything else on my packed bookshelf of endgame books.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MM0621
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/25/14
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #6 - 09/28/15 at 19:53:44
Post Tools
I have seen Euwe and Hooper's "A Guide to Chess Endings". Is Hooper's "A Pocket Guide To Chess Endgames" abbreviated version of Euwe's book?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kevinludwig
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 233
Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 06/13/04
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #5 - 09/28/15 at 19:38:30
Post Tools
I've always been of the feeling that if you read something, anything really, you're golden. I religiously went through a good part of Euwe's "A Guide to Chess Endings" and saw huge improvement in my game. I was later told its a terrible book (as far as endgame books go). 

I like the Euwe book, and FCE and BCE, but that's only because they're the three books I happen to have purchased.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEH
God Member
*****
Offline


"Football is like Chess,
only without the dice."

Posts: 1456
Location: Reading
Joined: 09/22/05
Gender: Male
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #4 - 09/20/15 at 10:21:21
Post Tools
Bibs wrote on 09/19/15 at 15:54:07:
I used Keres when I was a young kid (maybe 11-12, dunno). Yes, cover to cover, of my own accord. 
I found it clear and helpful. I have a positive memory of that read n' study.
Muller and Lamprecht and Silman are accessible.

So, I suggest Keres.



This was recommended by GM Spraggett as a must for everyone's first book on endings, but that might be a sign of coming from a certain generation of Chess players.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEH
God Member
*****
Offline


"Football is like Chess,
only without the dice."

Posts: 1456
Location: Reading
Joined: 09/22/05
Gender: Male
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #3 - 09/20/15 at 10:18:50
Post Tools
I have most of these endgame bricks, but they are sadly sitting in a large pile of good intentions  Embarrassed

I did get through a lot of Karsten Muller's endgame DVDs (body check), so maybe I should get stuck into his FCE and his "How to play chess endings" [Don't kid youself, you know you'll spend the time on openings  Roll Eyes]

I tend to go with the practical endgame books like James Howell's Excellent Essential chEss Endings  Cool
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2338
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #2 - 09/19/15 at 15:54:07
Post Tools
I used Keres when I was a young kid (maybe 11-12, dunno). Yes, cover to cover, of my own accord. 
I found it clear and helpful. I have a positive memory of that read n' study.
Muller and Lamprecht and Silman are accessible.

So, I suggest Keres.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
proustiskeen
God Member
*****
Offline


Hello from Omaha!

Posts: 678
Joined: 08/11/08
Re: Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
Reply #1 - 09/19/15 at 00:47:44
Post Tools
You're asking a lot. Here's an abbreviated answer.

Averbakh's five volumes are wonderful but theory has advanced in some places. Nunn's two volumes are, for me, too pedantic / detailed / impractical.

Either Dvoretsky or Muller/Lamprecht are the best one volume books available. Panchenko might be better for learning (it is simpler) but I'd prefer DEM or FCE. If pressed I might go with FCE... as of today. Tomorrow it might be DEM.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
MM0621
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/25/14
Comparision of Comprehensive Endgame books
09/17/15 at 18:11:24
Post Tools

There are so many good endgame reference books available.

1. Encylopedia of Chess Endgames - Chess Informant

2. Comprehensive Chess Endings - Yuri Averbakh

3. Basic Chess Endings - Fine

4. Batsford Chess Endings - Speelman

5. Fundamental Chess Endings - Mueller

6. Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual

7. Nunn's Chess Endings vol 1 & 2

8. Theory and Practice of chess endgames (Endspieltheorie und Praktik) - Panchenko

9. Practical Chess Endings - Keres

10. 600 Chess Endgames - Portisch


Most of you own at least two or three of above books. Could you please compare and contrast these works?

1. How comprehensive is the coverage? Any major misses?

2. Quality of positions

3. Quality of explanations

4. Ratio of technical vs strategical endings

5. Ratio of simple vs complicated endings

6. Available as playable ebook?

7. If you have to study one of these books from cover to cover, which book would you choose and why?

Thank you!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo