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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Alekhine: Sergeev variation (Read 12439 times)
tp2205
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #28 - 05/14/20 at 16:57:23
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Have you looked already at 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4.d4 d6 5.f4 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Be3 Be6 8.Rc1 0–0 9.b3 dxe5 10.fxe5 c5 11.d5 Bf5 12.Be2 Na6 13.Bf4?

I also started looking at this line again after the CC game and my impression is that White should delay Nf3 in this line as long as possible. Now both Bg4 and Nd7 (14.g4) are prevented which leaves 13 ...Qb8 14.Nf3 and if now Bg4 it looks as if 15. d6 is good for White.

PS. I am looking at these lines from White's point of view and for me the critical (= not sure what I should do against it) line is 11...Bc8 12. Be2 N6d7 13. Nf3 Nxe5 14. Nxe5 ( 14.Bxc5 Nbd7 15.Bd4 Nxf3+ 16.Bxf3 Ne5 ) Bxe5 15. Bxc5 Qc7 16. Bf2 Bxh2 17. Qd2 Bf4 18. Be3 Bg3+ 19. Kf1 where White has compensation but where I am struggling to find more than that.
« Last Edit: 05/14/20 at 18:03:31 by tp2205 »  
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Kam
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #27 - 05/14/20 at 12:21:47
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Summary of Moves Related to the Ig Questions 2,3 and 1:

1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4.d4 d6 5.f4 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Be3 Be6 8.Rc1 0–0 9.b3 dxe5 10.fxe5 c5 11.d5 Bf5 12.Be2 Na6 13.Nf3 Qb8

13…. Bg4!?
Proposed by Ig and it seems very promising.
14.Nd2 (14.Bf4?! Bxf3 15.Bxf3 Nd7 16.d6 Nb4 17.a3 Nc6 18.Bg5 h6 19.Bxc6 hxg5 20.Bxb7 Rb8 21.Bc6 Nxe5 22.Ba4 Qxd6 23.Qxd6 exd6 slight advantage black)

14...Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Bxe5 16.Bh6 Bg7 17.Bxg7 Kxg7 18.0–0 Nc8 19.Rce1 Qa5 20.Qe5+ f6 21.Qe3 Nb4 22.Nde4 Nc2 23.Qxc5 Qxc5+ 24.Nxc5 Nxe1 25.Rxe1 Kf7 26.Nxb7 a5 27.c5 Ra7 28.c6 Rxb7 29.cxb7 Nd6 30.Ne4 Nxb7 Very slight advantage white. 

An interesting endgame with unbalanced pawn structures has eventuated. White is required to play accurately in order to maintain the slight advantage. Line 4, Ig question 2.;

13...Nd7 This move seems to have a key drawback as follows: 14.Bf4 Qc7 15.Nb5 Qa5+ 16.Qd2 Qxd2+ 17.Kxd2± Line 5, Ig question 3.]

14.h3!? The prophylactic move was proposed by TonyRo. 14...Bxe5 15.Nxe5 Qxe5 16.Qd2 Qg3+

[16...Rad8 17.0–0 Bxh3 18.Rce1 Bc8 19.Bf3 Qh8 20.Ne4 Nd7 21.Bg5 f6 22.d6 e6 23.Bf4 h5 24.Nc3 Ndb8 Very slight advantage white.  White has a strong initiative, but black has an extra two pawns and good chances to unravel. Line 6, Ig question 1.]

17.Kf1 Qe5 18.Kf2 Nc8 19.Rhe1 Qb8 20.Bg5 f6
21.Bf4 Nd6 22.Kg1 Qd8 Very slight advantage white. Black has an extra pawn. Line 7, Ig question 1.


Ig Questions 2,3 and 1.


2) Both 13...Nd7 and 13...Bg4 appear to be better; I am not saying that these "improvements", if they are, make the line ok for Black
Kam: The move 13…. Bg4 looks very promising (Line 4). I have looked at two possible lines against this system and black seems at least okay.
The move 13…. Nd7 seems to have some serious problems in the critical line as mentioned in Q3.

3) After 13...Nd7 14.Bf4 Qc7 !? 15.Nb5 Qa5+ Black appears to hold; however, both 15.d6 and 15.0-0 seem to be better.
The critical line seems to be 13...Nd7 14.Bf4 Qc7 !? 15.Nb5 Qa5+ 16.Qd2!? Qxd2 17.Kxd2 and white has a significant advantage. The black king bishop and the two knights have very restricted mobility. (Line 5). Black seems okay against 15.d6 and 15.O-O.

1) Is 13...Qb8 the best move?      
Kam:
     The viability of the 13…. Qb8 system is currently under review. Two improvements against the 14.h3 system have been found and they will be further discussed in a later post (Line 6 and line 7).


  
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Kam
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #26 - 05/14/20 at 12:16:48
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Summary of Moves Related to the Ig Questions 6,5 and 4:
1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4.d4 d6 5.f4 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Be3 Be6 8.Rc1 0–0 9.b3 dxe5

[9...Na6 I have previously analysed this move and it seems to be playable. 10.Be2 c5 11.dxc5 Nxc5 12.Nf3 Rc8 13.0–0 dxe5 14.Nxe5 Nbd7 Very slight advantage white.

Black has sacrificed a pawn in order to get counter-play. White can fend off the initiative, but a drawn end game with opposite colour square bishops is the most likely outcome. Line 1, Ig Question 6.]

10.fxe5 c5 11.d5 Bf5 [11...Bc8 I think 11....Bc8 is slightly inferior than 11.Bf5, but it may not be as bad as I had initially thought. 12.Be2 N6d7 13.Nf3 Nxe5 14.Bxc5 Nxf3+ 15.Bxf3 Nd7 16.Bd4 Ne5 17.Be2 e6 Very slight advantage white.  Line 2, Ig Question 5.]

12.Be2 Na6 13.Nf3

12...Bxe5?! 13.Nf3 Bd6  14.O-O Nbd7  15.Bh6 Nf6  16.Qd2!? (TonyRo) Re8  17.Ng5± White's has a dangerous attack and a timely exchange sacrifice of the bishop on the f5 square will win the game. Line 3, Ig question  4.


The Ig Questions and Answers, 6,5 and 4.

6) Is 9...Na6 refuted? It appears better to me than 9...dxe5   
Kam: I have previously analysed 9…. Na6 and it seems to be playable. (Line 1) Some of the continuations may also transpose to the 9.b3 dxe5 variations.

5)  Is 11...Bc8 worse than 11….Bf5
Kam: I think so but surprisingly 11…. Bc8 yields white at best only a slight disadvantage (Line 2).

Backtracking:
4) is 12...Na6 the best move?
Kam: 12…. Na6 seems to be the best move.
     The continuation 12…. Bxe5?! 13.Nf3 has been extensively investigated and white always seems to always get a very strong position. Line 3.


  
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lg
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #25 - 04/24/20 at 14:59:00
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Right, I missed earlier post (Kam, I am sorry)
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #24 - 04/24/20 at 12:20:22
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lg wrote on 04/24/20 at 10:55:05:
well, i thought Tony's "revival" post of two days ago was in a certain motivated by this game; or then, it was a coincidence

Not a coincidene, but not due to that game either. The Alekhine is a hobby and love of mine, I check ChessPub relatively frequently to see if anything interesting is being discussed. Kam's post was the revival, not mine! Smiley
  
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #23 - 04/24/20 at 10:55:05
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well, i thought Tony's "revival" post of two days ago was in a certain motivated by this game; or then, it was a coincidence

anyway, 8.Rc1 appears to be hard to meet

to be honest, I would have preferred to see 4.Nf3 in Caruana-Carlsen to see what Magnus would play; 4...dxe5 5.Nxe5 c6 as he played in many games in the past or 5...g6 (the Kengis) as he played against Firouza in blitz games of the past week ?
  
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #22 - 04/24/20 at 05:08:23
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Weird that this game played 2 days ago was't mentioned yet. It is clear that Caruana was surprised. The interview after the game was funny:

Carlsen: The first game I made one really, really bad move, and otherwise it was ok.

Peter Svidler: What move was that?

Carlsen: Well, 1...Nf6 wasn't really good (smiles).

  
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #21 - 04/23/20 at 23:00:35
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Hi

Is 13...Qb8 the best move
Both 13...Nd7 and 13...Bg4 appear to be better; I am not saying that these "improvements", if they are, make the line ok for Black

After 13...Nd7 14.Bf4 Qc7 !? 15.Nb5 Qa5+ Black appears to hold; however, both 15.d6 and 15.0-0 seem to be better

Backtracking:

i) is 12...Na6 the best move?
ii) is 11...Bc8 worse than 11.Bc5
and
iii) is 9...Na6 refuted? it appears better to me than 9...dxe5
  
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #20 - 04/23/20 at 16:52:58
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But why 18.Bf4? Probably any reasonable move is very bad for Black, e.g. 18.Rce1, 18.Bf3, etc. Black's position optically just looks terrible.
  
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Kam
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #19 - 04/23/20 at 13:52:39
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Reply to Tony Ro's suggestion to 14.h3 (Post #18)

1.e4 Nf6  2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6  4.d4 d6 5.f4 g6  6.Nc3 Bg7  7.Be3 Be6 8. Rc1 O-O  9. b3 dxe5  10. fxe5 c5  11.d5 Bf5  12.Be2 Na6 13.Nf3 Qb8  14.h3 (TonyRo) Bxe5 15.Nxe5 Qxe5  16.Qd2 Rfe8 (Kam)  I still think that black is okay.
eg. 17.O-O Bxh3  18.Bf4 Qd4+  19.Qxd4 cxd4  20.Nb5 d3 21.Bxd3 Bd7 etc. White may have a slight advantage. White has the bishop pair, but black has an extra pawn.
  
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #18 - 04/22/20 at 16:40:54
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All the engines I have on me find 14.h3 to be pretty much winning, since 14...Nd7 15.g4+- and 14...Bxe5 15.Nxe5 Qxe5 16.Qd2 with castles next, etc. What am I missing?
  
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Kam
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #17 - 04/22/20 at 14:17:00
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Developments Against the 4 Pawns Attack, Sergeev
        7.Be3 Be6 8.Rc1 Variation.
   
The 8.Rc1 variation is personally considered as one of the more troublesome lines against the Sergeev System. Recently I have discovered a continuation, which appears to be a very combatant antidote.

1.e4 Nf6  2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6  4.d4 d6 5.f4 g6  6.Nc3 Bg7  7.Be3 Be6
8. Rc1 O-O  9. b3 dxe5  10. fxe5 c5  11.d5 Bf5  12.Be2 Na6
The key aim of this knight move is to undergo some development and vacate the b8-square for a purpose, which will be mentioned later in the game.
The knight seems to be heading in the wrong direction, but the alternative 12…. N8d7 causes congestion problems. The alternative 12 …. Bxe5 ?! was previously played and discussed in an earlier post. The immediate pawn capture allows white to launch a decisive attack involving the possibility of a stunning rook exchange sacrifice.

13.Nf3 Qb8
Time to elaborate on the previous comment! The strange deployment of the queen allows a favourable capture of the white e5-pawn. 13…. Qc7?! allows white of play the annoying 14.Nb5.

14.Qd2
     The move consolidates white’s position and interestingly it is this queen move which lead to the demise of the earlier 14…. Bxe5 continuation. If black drifts into meaningless plan mode, white will suffocate black’s position as the black knights ponder the thought “What are we doing over here?”.  The important alternative 14.Bf4 and 14.O-O will be discussed at a later date.

14….Bg4 
Moving of the same bishop three times in the opening phase does appear highly suspicious, but black’s play is sound. The imposing white centre can be broken up without dire consequences.

15.O-O Bxf3  16. Bxf3 Bxe5 
Black is able to capture the pawn and simultaneously threaten the capture of the h-pawn. White now must play a defensive move.

17.g3 Nc8!?
A crucial move with the intent of setting up on the d6-square a defensive central knight outpost and a blockade against a white d-pawn advance.

18.Rfe1 Nd6
The f7-pawn is further protected and black’s position is significantly bolstered up.

19.Bh6 Bd4+  20.Kg2 Re8  21. Nb5
White won’t be giving away a pawn without a fight and thus black may have to defend very accurately for the next twenty! moves. A possible continuation is
21…. Bg7  22.Bf4 Bf8  23.Bg4 Qd8 24.Nxd6 exd6  25.Rxe8 Qxe8 26.Re1 Qd8  27.Bg5 Qb6  28.Bf6 Nc7  29.Qf2 Ne8  30.Ba1 Qc7  32.Qf6 Qd8  33.Qc3 f5  34.Bf3 Qd7  35.a3 Re8  36.Rxe8 Rxe8  37.b4 b6  38.bxc5 bxc5 39.Kf2 Qf7 slight Ŧ Black’s chances of further activating of the minor pieces and utilising the extra pawn are very good. With the black queen on the e7-square and the king on the f7-square, black is able to play Ne8 or Nh5 followed by the liberating  Nf6 or the forced exchange off of the dark square bishops.
The most likely resulting scenario, is that white will have to grovel for the next twenty moves, but manage to scrape a draw.
40.Bb2 Qe7  41.Be2 Kf7  42.Bd3 Nh5 (or 42…. Ne8) 43.Qh8 Nf6  44.Bxf6 Qxf6  45.Qxh7+ Bg7  46.a4 Qd4+  47.Ke2 Qb2+ 48.Kf3 Qa3 Advantage Black. Etc.
Further moves are seen in the Pgn file. All constructive comments are welcome.








  
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Kam
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #16 - 02/25/17 at 10:43:23
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Black has serious problems in this continuation and I don’t think they can be solved.
The lines involving 8.Rc1 O-O 9.b3 Na6 (ie. not 9…. dxe5) 10.Nf3 c5 or 10.Be2 c5 are currently being analysed and they are related to the the Reply #9 Games of Brabo-MC14999  2014 and Brabo-Dugailliez G 2014.
Isn't chess analysis fun?!
  
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #15 - 02/20/17 at 01:03:16
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Thoughts on 16.Qd2 instead? Seems to me like White gets a better version of your analysis, as now Bxf8 Bf4! resources are not possible, and 16.Qd2 Re8 17.Ng5! looks terrible for Black.
  
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Re: Alekhine: Sergeev variation
Reply #14 - 02/19/17 at 05:14:19
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Alekhine’s Defence, Four Pawns Attack, 5….g6 System with 8.Rc1, Refutation and Exchange Sacrifice Discovery.

My previous post has a major flaw, which must be rectified.
1.e4 Nf6  2.e5 Nd5  3.c4 Nb6  4.d4 d6  5.f5 g6  6.Nc3 Bg7  7.Be3 Be6 8.Rc1 O-O  9.b3 dxe5  10.fxe5 c5  11.d5 Bf5  12.Be2 Bxe5  13.Nf3 Bd6

TonyRo (Post #12) has mentioned that the forceful 14.Bh6, must be countered.
TonyRo (Post #12) has also proposed after that after 14.O-O N8d7  15.Bh6 Re8?  (Nf6!?)  16.g4 should be explored. Unfortunately the advance of the g-pawn leads to a devastating refutation with 16…. Bxg4  17.Ng5 Bf5  18.Rxf5! gxf5 19.Qf1 e6  20.Qg2 +-

Playable continuations against the two problems have been found and they are also found to be in some degree inter-transposable.

My current analysis shows that against the rook capture threat by the bishop  14.Bh6, black should counter with an exchange sacrifice offer (R v B+p) with 14….N8d7 !?

The key continuations are as follows:
a) White immediately accepts the exchange sacrifice offer:
15.Bxf8 Bf4!?  16.Bxe7 Qxe7  17.O-O Nf6  18.Nh4 Qe3+  19.Kh1 Be4
20.Nxe4 Nxe4  21.Rc2 Nf2+  22.Rxf2 Qxf2  23.Nf3 Nd7  24.Bd3 Qe3
25.Re2 Qc1  26.Qxc1 Bxc1  27.Re7 Rd8  28.Re1 Bh6=

b) White continues with an intermezzo kingside castle:
15.O-O Nf6!?  (15…. Re8? Would be a move transposition to a position, which was a key theme of my previous post). 16.Bxf8 Qxf8  17.Bd3 Bg4 
b1)18.h3 Qh6!?  19.Re1 Bxf3 20.Qxf3 Be5!?  21.Ne4 Nh5  22.Rcd1 Bd4+  23.Kh1 Nd7  24.Qg4 Ne5 25.Qg5 Qxg5  26.Nxg5 Bc3  27.Re3 Bd4  28. Ree1 =
b2) 18.Qe2 Nbd7  19.h3 Qh6  20.hxg4 Nxg4  21.g3 Bxg3  22.Rb1 Bf4  23.d6 Nde5 =

c) White continues with the intermezzo knight move:
15.Nh4 e6 16.Nxf5 exf5  17.Bxf8 Qh4+  18.Kd2 Bf4+ 19.Kc2 Bxc1 20.Bxc5 Nxc5=

A 14th move deviation  14.O-O N8d7  was mentioned in my previous post. After 15.Bh6, black should continue with 15… Nf6!?  (15…. Re8?  16.g4!? (TonyRo) 16…. Bxg4  17.Ng5 Bf5 18.Rxf5 gxf5  19.Qf1 e6  20.Qg2+-.) 16.Bxf8 Qxf8  17.Bd3 Bg4 and this continuation has transposed to variation b) of the previously mention 14.Bh6 N8d7 variation.

Another 14th move deviation is 14.Nh4 e6  15.Nxf5 exf5  16.Qd2 Re8 17.Bg5 f6 =/Ŧ

     A summary and examples of possible continuations are shown in the pgn file presentation.


  
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