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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Whats up with Magnus? (Read 68004 times)
ReneDescartes
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #27 - 11/04/15 at 00:47:49
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He's about six months younger than Carlsen was at the same rating, but there's many a slip between cup and lip: if everyone who had promise realized it against the pressure of reality, we'd have a very different world. Does Wei have the psychological makeup to be world champion?  Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe he's Kasparov; maybe he's Leko. But a reign of nine years  for Carlsen (the age difference with Wei Yi) would in any case be a long one as world champions go, at least for those who play against their strongest rivals--as long as any except those of Karpov and Kasparov. In other words, it's normal. Could be fun to watch, though!
  
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Keano
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #26 - 11/03/15 at 22:55:47
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Good points by all, although perhaps the more pertinent point is, apart from people discovering Magnus is human, the rise of the opposition.

In particular the young Wei Yi is beginning to look like an unstoppable force of nature. I cannot remember a young player like this since Kasparov coming up.
  
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BenkoFan
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #25 - 10/27/15 at 12:27:40
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 10/20/15 at 12:44:43:
Maybe Magnus should have quit chess when he won the title?

Magnus had the highest rating in history and still has a 2850 rating.  Sure, his rating has gone down a bit. But  the number two slot is currently nearly 50 points behind him and is occupied by a rotating player of the month. There's no clear challenger to Magnus. I didn't see anything wrong with Magnus' behavior in the World Blitz tournament. He lost some frustrating games and showed his frustration.

Don't forget, the day before the World Blitz Championship, he won the World Rapid Championship in style. What I saw in the World Blitz tournament was that Magnus was tired and a bit cranky.

What Magnus really needs is for someone to come up and challenge him. Until then, he will continue to win most of the tournaments he plays in and will be questioned every time he doesn't win.


Completely agree. Although it is true that at one point people were talking about Magnus breaking 2900 whereas all that talk has stopped now. He is still far and away the Worlds top player.
  
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Keano
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #24 - 10/24/15 at 10:33:44
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 10/23/15 at 14:05:10:
I'm not going to delete any comments yet, but please refrain from personal attacks.


I dont think we've had any personal attacks here.

I think my original comment about Magnus' form is accepted by most pro's so personally I dont even see it as the least controversial. As for his reactions in the blitz I've not the least issue.

To clarify - my comment that Rene's post was "out of order" is perhaps the wrong term. He is entitled to have a go at those players, but we are entitled to defend them was my point.

Carry on...  Smiley
  
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Bibs
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #23 - 10/23/15 at 23:10:14
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Perhaps all can kick back, chill a bit. Just a board game.
I don't mind a wee bit of cockiness.
Kasparov was good and he knew it. Yes. Nothing he did overreached for me.
Naka - I guess there was some stuff online when he was a teen, I heard, I don't know, I wasn't on ICC then. Much can be forgiven of teens (I am a teacher!). Played him twice OTB (rated, but short games, alas, *sigh*) he's a friendly decent lad, and has grown up further since then it seems.  We are all a mixed bag of behaviours, views and emotions, we all have flaws.
Korchnoi's behaviour to Zsofia Polgar though - that stuck with me, and that was just too far. Nasty. That was unpleasant, rude and bullying. Unacceptable. Not heat of the moment blitz - he just chose to be actively unpleasant. Being good, even very good at a board game does not grant permission to ignore accepted behaviours. (While here - journeyman GMs - don't forget to wash, hair too, AND change clothes. Yes, both. Toothbrushes are great tools too. Deodorants - go on, try. They don't bite.)
Carlsen was perturbed to lose blitz games, the ultimate in high stress, high emotion chess. Not showing emotion at thingy-ups would worry me more frankly!
Not much more to say here? We can agree to disagree on the Internet, with people we haven't met, about a board game. Perhaps?
Right, dunno about you, but I need to learn some proper theory, finally, which is the main reason I am here Smiley Slow Slav, here I come....
Best regards to all comrades here,
B
  
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Uhohspaghettio
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #22 - 10/23/15 at 16:56:56
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I have more respect for people who act how they feel than people who try and manipulate their expression to an ideology. So I don't like the idea of losing "gracefully", I think we should always act as we feel as best we can. I don't want anyone to be polite to me for the sake of politeness, only if they truly feel like acting this way.    
 
That said, I do think the throwing and fast movements are a little poor in etiquette. Because just as he is feeling like making such contortions instinctively, it's also causing a type of instinctive reaction to occur in others which is a little offputting. Kasparov's strong reactions seemed "better" somehow, they seemed a bit healthier.       
   
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #21 - 10/23/15 at 14:05:10
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I'm not going to delete any comments yet, but please refrain from personal attacks.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #20 - 10/23/15 at 03:18:00
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Keano wrote on 10/23/15 at 01:44:33:
Also your comments on Kasparov, Korchnoi, Nakamura were in poor form. I have my issues with all of them but your post was out of order.

Aso your comments about "weeds coming up" etc.

To sum up, you were well out of order in my opinion, hence my previous comment.


Some self-awareness could go a long way in your threads, Keano.  There's a reason that I rarely post in them, and that reason certainly isn't Rene. 
  
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Keano
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #19 - 10/23/15 at 01:44:33
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Ok - "real decline of a player" thanks for clarifying.

I dont think anybody is claiming that here of Carlsen - what we have here is a very interesting slump which may or may not turn into decline but certainly deserves commenting on from all of the chess world as it is not typical for a recent World ch.

Also your comments on Kasparov, Korchnoi, Nakamura were in poor form. I have my issues with all of them but your post was out of order.

Aso your comments about "weeds coming up" etc.

To sum up, you were well out of order in my opinion, hence my previous comment.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #18 - 10/22/15 at 23:50:12
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Keano wrote on 10/22/15 at 18:39:24:
So just to make it clear you are not disagreeing with any of the present posters so what exactly is your point ? Miami Dolphins aside Sad


I think this sentence is the heart:
ReneDescartes wrote on 10/20/15 at 17:10:32:
The real decline of a player happens gradually and only becomes clear in retrospect after a long time.


My first point is to be polite, not the type of thing in my opinion that deserves some sort of ruthless unmasking.

One could also, if one wanted to use reason to reinforce politeness,  distinguish the matter of Carlsen's strength and real ability to win from the matter of the belief of other players in his invincibility.

But why fall back on that? The truth is that I try not to attack people unless their thinking is crude or rude, and given that in view of a general human tendency I wanted to say "eternal vigor of the overreactions that surge up like weeds" and that Bibs is a poster I respect, I needed to say what one would ordinarily say in a pub over a pint, and that is "present company excepted."
  
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Keano
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #17 - 10/22/15 at 18:39:24
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ReneDescartes wrote on 10/20/15 at 17:10:32:
Not speaking here of Bibs or the other present posters, I am always struck by the eternal vigor of the overreactions that surge up like weeds every time someone on top has a setback. The real decline of a player happens gradually and only becomes clear in retrospect after a long time -- even in the case of those irreparably damaged by loss in a match, such as Leko.

The 1972 Miami Dolphins, on their way to the only perfect record in the history of American football, complained that they were being judged as has-beens because they were not winning gloriously enough. Everyone "expected atomic wipeouts."

Carlsen lost the Blitz championship and left a simple mate on the table to Ivanchuk; I think he showed the frustration of an emotionally driven competitor, not venomous ungentlemanly behavior like Kasparov and Korchnoi or clueless, oafish puerility like Nakamura. In fact, Carlsen's reactions are reminiscent of those of Ivanchuk in that, while he shows intense emotion, he blames no one but himself.


So just to make it clear you are not disagreeing with any of the present posters so what exactly is your point ? Miami Dolphins aside Sad


  
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Bibs
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #16 - 10/20/15 at 21:43:05
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ReneDescartes wrote on 10/20/15 at 17:10:32:
Not speaking here of Bibs or the other present posters, I am always struck by the eternal vigor of the overreactions that surge up like weeds every time someone on top has a setback. The real decline of a player happens gradually and only becomes clear in retrospect after a long time -- even in the case of those irreparably damaged by loss in a match, such as Leko.

The 1972 Miami Dolphins, on their way to the only perfect record in the history of American football, complained that they were being judged as has-beens because they were not winning gloriously enough. Everyone "expected atomic wipeouts."

Carlsen lost the Blitz championship and left a simple mate on the table to Ivanchuk; I think he showed the frustration of an emotionally driven competitor, not venomous ungentlemanly behavior like Kasparov and Korchnoi or clueless, oafish puerility like Nakamura. In fact, Carlsen's reactions are reminiscent of those of Ivanchuk in that, while he shows intense emotion, he blames no one but himself.


Good post. Wholly agree.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #15 - 10/20/15 at 17:10:32
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Not speaking here of Bibs or the other present posters, I am always struck by the eternal vigor of the overreactions that surge up like weeds every time someone on top has a setback. The real decline of a player happens gradually and only becomes clear in retrospect after a long time -- even in the case of those irreparably damaged by loss in a match, such as Leko.

The 1972 Miami Dolphins, on their way to the only perfect record in the history of American football, complained that they were being judged as has-beens because they were not winning gloriously enough. Everyone "expected atomic wipeouts."

Carlsen lost the Blitz championship and left a simple mate on the table to Ivanchuk; I think he showed the frustration of an emotionally driven competitor, not venomous ungentlemanly behavior like Kasparov and Korchnoi or clueless, oafish puerility like Nakamura. In fact, Carlsen's reactions are reminiscent of those of Ivanchuk in that, while he shows intense emotion, he blames no one but himself.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #14 - 10/20/15 at 12:44:43
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Maybe Magnus should have quit chess when he won the title?

Magnus had the highest rating in history and still has a 2850 rating.  Sure, his rating has gone down a bit. But  the number two slot is currently nearly 50 points behind him and is occupied by a rotating player of the month. There's no clear challenger to Magnus. I didn't see anything wrong with Magnus' behavior in the World Blitz tournament. He lost some frustrating games and showed his frustration.

Don't forget, the day before the World Blitz Championship, he won the World Rapid Championship in style. What I saw in the World Blitz tournament was that Magnus was tired and a bit cranky.

What Magnus really needs is for someone to come up and challenge him. Until then, he will continue to win most of the tournaments he plays in and will be questioned every time he doesn't win.
  
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Re: Whats up with Magnus?
Reply #13 - 10/20/15 at 00:47:54
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LostTactic wrote on 10/19/15 at 23:48:41:
Perhaps it's a generational thing.

Yeah, Magnus is from Kasparov's generation!

HAS Magnus' performance been poor?
He had a once-in-a-lifetime catastrophy at Norway Chess, got 2nd place with a 2831 performance in Sinquefield, won the World Rapid Championship by a full point, and sported a /rather good/ score after day1 in the World Blitz, only to be caught by a slump on the 2nd day (which can -and will- happen to anybody in Blitz).

He isn't dominating everyone far and wide, but if you consider his "real rating" to be somewhere in the 2850+ region, then there will always be days where he 'only' plays on 2800-2830 level, while someone out of the ~2800 club overperforms. 
I see nothing out of the ordinary with this..?

Keano wrote on 10/15/15 at 21:18:58:
plenty of new blood coming up so if he wants to hold on to his title he'd better get back in the zone...

I also don't really know who this would be referring to. Nakamura is on a roll lately (although he too now lost to a 2550 in the Eu. Club Cup) and Wei Yi obviously, but else?
  
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