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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4 (Read 5407 times)
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #10 - 12/19/15 at 00:42:04
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Since you play an unusual defence to 1.d4 it makes sense to meet 1.c4 with 1...e5 or 1...c5. Either way you have a lot of different options so you should be able to find something suiting your style, for example:

a) One approach is to go Bb4 as soon as they play Nc3, so if 2.Nc3 Bb4, 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 h6!? waiting for 4.Nc3 and then 4...Bb4 (yes this is a major line, and fine for Black). The only price you pay is that White obtains a very tiny edge if they find all the right moves in the 2.Nc3 Bb4 line.

b) Get a Reversed Open Sicilian as soon as you can, e.g. 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 d5, 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 d5 and 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 d5. Of course you need to show a bit of flexibility if they don't fianchetto, but then you can often fianchetto yourself, e.g. 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.a3 g6 or 4.e3 g6 5.d4 d6.

c) Try to develop the bishop to c5, e.g. 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 Bc5, 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 Bc5, and if 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 Nc6 4.Nc3 or 4.Nf3 then 4...Bc5. Again you need some flexibility for when they don't go g3.

There are other options as well, for instance you may like 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 Nd4, and if you like the Grand Prix Attack then 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3/g3 f5 is a logical enough suggestion. Or if you play the King's Indian, you may be happy to play 2...Nc6/3...g6, even if the 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 g6 4.d4 line arguably gives White the easier position to play in general.

A similar breakdown can be done with 1...c5 lines, starting with whether you want to play ...Nc6 or ...Nf6 on move 2, but I guess you already settled on 1...e5.

Against 1.Nf3 I would use the 1...d5 move order to limit White's options somewhat, if 2.d4 Nc6 you get your Chigorin (though you may like to investigate 2...Bf5 for some variety), 2.c4 is well met by 2...d4 and against most moves you'll play ...Nc6, and if 2.g3 you can always play 2...Nc6 if you are insistent on a Chigorin position (as happens after 3.d4).

  

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LostTactic
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #9 - 12/18/15 at 17:57:02
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Sounds like Bologan's Chessbase dvd on 1.c4 e5 would be ideal for you. It's a couple years old now but it's very good, it is the backbone of my repertoire against 1.c4. Although I prefer getting into it from 1.c4 Nf6 and now only after 2.Nc3 I will play 2...e5. If 2.g3 I play 2...e6 followed by 3...d5 and usually transpose back into Catalan, or some Reti-Catalan if white insists. Bologan covers 1.c5 e5 2.g3 but I prefer Catalan and Reti-Catalan setups for black.
  
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kevinludwig
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #8 - 12/18/15 at 16:00:57
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I do play 1. ...e5 vs e4, so 1. Nc6 would be OK I guess vs. 1. c4. But then I wonder about 1. c4 Nc6 2. g3 e5 3. Bg2 Nf6 4. Nc3. Anyway like I said I'm fine with 1. c4 e5, forcing black to stay English. If 1. Nf3 I'd probably go 1. ...d5 and 2. ...Nc6.
  
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tipau
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #7 - 12/18/15 at 15:59:07
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I played the Chigorin for a couple of years and answered 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 with 1...Nc6 as well.

After 1.Nf3 Nc6 the almost universal response was 2.d4 when 2...d5 takes you back to lines you probably play already. No-one wanted to allow 2.g3 e5! or 2.e4 e5. After 2.e4 Black could also consider 2...d6, which was given as a recommendation by Schuyler in his 'Dark Knight System' book about 1...Nc6, with a ...Nf6 & ...g6 follow-up leading to Pirc type positions without f2-f4 possibilities and the b8 knight committed to c6. Certainly no worse for Black than the Chigorin  Wink The alternative is of course 1.Nf3 d5, when you'd need to be prepared to play 2.c4 d4

As already stated 1.c4 Nc6 is fine if you're happy with 2.d4 d5 and prepared to follow-up with ...e5 if White avoids 2.d4.
  

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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #6 - 12/18/15 at 10:30:47
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Laramonet wrote on 12/18/15 at 09:05:32:
I'm not sure many 1.Nf3 players would be looking for the rare transposition into an Open Game.


There is a reason why 1. Nf3 players might resort to 2. d4 or 2. e4 against 1. .. Nc6. That would be to avoid the reverse Pirc which could arise after 1. Nf3 Nc6 2. g3 d5 3.Bg2 e5. Give away a tempo or two and you are fending off one of the many attacking systems against the Pirc. Even a slowish version of a reverse 150 Attack gives Black a decent game. Black would play ..  Nf6, .. Be6, .. Qd7, .. Bd6 in some order followed by O-O-O if feeling brave or O-O if feeling solid.
  
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #5 - 12/18/15 at 09:05:32
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I can't immediately think of any reason not to play 1..., Nc6 in response to 1.c4. As RdC says, you might be lucky and get 2.d4. if not, just play 2..., e5.
As Kylemeisteer advises, the main alternative to 1.c4 2.Nc3 is 2.g3. You can keep it common with Nc6, e5, Nf6 and Bb4 as long as you have found an acceptable continuation after Nd5.
As to 1.Nf3, replying 1..., Nc6 still works as long as you're happy after 2.e4. What would you normally play against 1.e4 ?
Even having said that, I'm not sure many 1.Nf3 players would be looking for the rare transposition into an Open Game.
  
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kevinludwig
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #4 - 12/18/15 at 00:46:53
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> How do you defend against 1. d4?

I play the Chigorin. I'm not sure that 1. ...d5 or 1. ...Nc6 works out so well. And I'm fine with going in for pure English lines if white starts 1. c4.
  
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #3 - 12/17/15 at 23:03:20
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kevinludwig wrote on 12/17/15 at 18:03:31:
Hi,
I've always sort of ignored the English because I rarely face it.


How do you defend against 1. d4? Players of the English are sometimes/ often prepared to transpose to a mainstream Queen Pawn opening. They use the English just to avoid various things.

So if you regularly play the Kings Indian, just ignore them and play your usual moves. Otherwise play 1. .. e6 or 1. .. Nf6, 2. .. e6 if you prefer Nimzos, Queens Gambit Declined, Queens Indian etc. If you like the Tarrasch or semi-Tarrasch, play in some order e6,d5 and c5 in the first three moves. The only really independent lines of the English are where Black plays an early e5 or where White doesn't get d4 in.
  
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #2 - 12/17/15 at 20:30:38
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A few remarks:  it could be noted that 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3 Bb4 is one of the most respected replies, comparable to 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 Bb4, though it won't necessarily lead to similar positions.  (Recently Giri has allegedly been getting a slight edge as White with some new stuff in the venerable line 4. Bg2 0-0 5. e4 Bxc3.)

But there is also 2. g3, which poses a problem for someone wanting to play ...Bb4 (1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. Nd5 is supposed to be better for White).  Possibilities there include (assuming you don't want to play 2...Nf6 3. Bg2 d5, which like 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3 d5 can transpose to 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 d5) 2...Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 and 2...c6.  3...c6 is also a major possibility after 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3, where it is named for Keres.

This seems like the kind of thing for which a book like Fundamental Chess Openings might be handy.
  
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Re: Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
Reply #1 - 12/17/15 at 19:07:12
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I don't have anything to say about what you want to play against 1. c4. But don't forget to have something against 1. Nf3 followed by 2. c4, because this rules out your intended repertoire.
  
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kevinludwig
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Help to complete a repertoire vs. 1. c4
12/17/15 at 18:03:31
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Hi,
I've always sort of ignored the English because I rarely face it. But then when I do, it's always a disaster.

So I'm trying to come up with something coherent against it. I've settled on the english four knights where black plays Bb4 without an early d5. The book I've got (Starting Out: English) suggests white's main options are 4. g3, 4. e3, 4. d4 (and maybe 4. d3 or 4. e4). It suggests decent lines vs those things.

I'm just wondering what other major tries I need to be aware of/prepare against. In online blitz, I've seen some 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3. Here I'm not sure what black's main options are (suggestions)?

Also I'm guessing White has other major systems that I should be prepared against (can someone point out what those might be)?
  
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