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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C18: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play? (Read 19439 times)
Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #25 - 01/15/17 at 21:15:58
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Hello.

I checked this line a bit and found these two recent games trying out:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qa5 7.Bd2 Qa4 8.Qg4 Kf8 9.Qd1 b6 10.dxc5 bxc5 11.c4
This 11...Ne7 (not mentioned previously in the thread) does look solid for black, even if white gets to open up the position a bit.

Negi's line with 11.Nf3 does not look to give great chances for advantage either so I'm at the moment quite pessimistic of white's chances for advantage after 10.dxc5 Sad.



Have a nice day.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #24 - 02/02/16 at 20:50:37
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Hi.

Quote:
I found an interesting new line against 6... Qa5, what does everyone think about this:

(1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qa5 7.Bd2 Qa4 8.Qb1 c4 9.Ne2 Nc6 10.h4!? etc... see post #21)


Well. The kingside space brought by h4-h5 and g4 may certainly be nice. The lines given look reasonably nice for white.

Hard to say how black should play. Maybe 10...f6 is not so bad; with the reasoning being that if play is directed towards a structural struggle maybe h4 (and possibly Qb1) can look a bit out of place.

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Bibs
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #23 - 02/01/16 at 12:25:45
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It's helpful to situate the giving of ideas in reference to existing analysis from major texts.
What is theory 'saying' currently?
  
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MartinC
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #22 - 02/01/16 at 09:45:52
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Not the castling queenside bit - that's asking for very serious long term trouble on the a3/c3 squares.

Think you need to look at your black play in those lines too - I thought black normally kept b6 clear as a spot for the e7 knight to settle?
(Hence the trouble with c3!).

Otherwise it looks like what white mostly tries to play at some stage, maybe quite early/committal but then maybe black can't do anything much with that.
  
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NegiRefutes
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #21 - 01/31/16 at 20:56:37
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I found an interesting new line against 6... Qa5, what does everyone think about this:



White gets king side space and can sometimes castle queen side.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #20 - 01/04/16 at 18:18:08
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kylemeister wrote on 01/04/16 at 17:55:31:
Regarding Main Duck, I would have thought that such a quick fe and Rf7 may well not be the way to handle White's kingside advantage ...

After 18...Rde8, Black might play 19...Nd8 next, avoiding even Rf1-f7. Why would things get better for White, if he waits, how CAN he improve the position, increase his so-called "advantage" on the kingside? I've tried to find something stronger, in vain.

And White shouldn't take it as granted that he can totally ignore the queenside. After careful preparation, Black might break through...
  
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #19 - 01/04/16 at 17:55:31
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Regarding Main Duck, I would have thought that such a quick fe and Rf7 may well not be the way to handle White's kingside advantage ...
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #18 - 01/04/16 at 11:43:10
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brabo wrote on 01/03/16 at 07:01:43:
My Bg2 was prepared at home. It is very likely not the most dangerous setup as some grandmasters indeed play immediately the bishop to h3 (of course after inserting h4). However the big benefit of my choice is that Bg2 eliminates the dangerous counterplay with f6. Black anyway played it in the game (well he played f5 but we transposed). He got an acceptable position but there were 2 defects.
1. It is very difficult to outplay a weaker opponent with black from that position (I am weaker, no doubt).
2. Whites play is much simpler. A computer doesn't show how difficult correct moves are.

Despite my preparation didn't achieve a plus for white (there are more interesting lines for that as written in my comments), the result of the opening can be called a big success in my example.

I fully agree with your last sentence. On the other side, I don't think that in Qa5 it's harder to win for Black than elsewhere. My short analysis gives a more active treatment as the mainline. The duck approach is still worth a look. That "sitting like a duck" will cost the full point is often easier said than done. The most principled execution of it would be 11...Nge7 12.0-0 Nc8 !N (not in database): "Main Duck".


  
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brabo
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #17 - 01/03/16 at 07:01:43
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/02/16 at 20:31:33:
tony37 wrote on 01/01/16 at 12:45:08:
but if black doesn't wait like a duck, he's perfectly fine
obviously he doesn't need to play the way Stefan suggests, b6 (iso Ka8 + Rb8) totally stops any queenside attack, g6 prevents Nh5 ...

I thought it was appropriate to be just as generous as White, who had played Bg2 in his game, intending a later Bg2-h3.  Wink

I still fail to see what White should achieve with f4-f5. Also, Kb8-a8 was a subtle hint that White is going to attack on the "wrong" side, opening things where his own king stands.  Smiley

True, Black has other options to defend, which are hardly worse.

My Bg2 was prepared at home. It is very likely not the most dangerous setup as some grandmasters indeed play immediately the bishop to h3 (of course after inserting h4). However the big benefit of my choice is that Bg2 eliminates the dangerous counterplay with f6. Black anyway played it in the game (well he played f5 but we transposed). He got an acceptable position but there were 2 defects.
1. It is very difficult to outplay a weaker opponent with black from that position (I am weaker, no doubt).
2. Whites play is much simpler. A computer doesn't show how difficult correct moves are.

Despite my preparation didn't achieve a plus for white (there are more interesting lines for that as written in my comments), the result of the opening can be called a big success in my example.
  
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #16 - 01/03/16 at 06:53:23
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Stigma wrote on 01/01/16 at 21:20:43:
Seriously though, I have a soft spot for 6...Qa5 and wouldn't mind at all if it turns out to be playable. Though there always seems to be a risk of passivity with little to do but wait in some lines.

Grandmasters are playing this against 200 points lower rated players on a regular base. Some posters here believe that waiting is the best but that sounds to me a contradiction. If you have 200 or more points more than the opponent then you will lose a lot of rating points.

No those grandmasters don't play the opening only as a surprise as in my example I was prepared for it.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #15 - 01/02/16 at 20:31:33
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tony37 wrote on 01/01/16 at 12:45:08:
but if black doesn't wait like a duck, he's perfectly fine
obviously he doesn't need to play the way Stefan suggests, b6 (iso Ka8 + Rb8) totally stops any queenside attack, g6 prevents Nh5 ...

I thought it was appropriate to be just as generous as White, who had played Bg2 in his game, intending a later Bg2-h3.  Wink

I still fail to see what White should achieve with f4-f5. Also, Kb8-a8 was a subtle hint that White is going to attack on the "wrong" side, opening things where his own king stands.  Smiley

True, Black has other options to defend, which are hardly worse.
  
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Stigma
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #14 - 01/01/16 at 21:20:43
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tony37 wrote on 01/01/16 at 12:45:08:
but if black doesn't wait like a duck, he's perfectly fine
obviously he doesn't need to play the way Stefan suggests, b6 (iso Ka8 + Rb8) totally stops any queenside attack, g6 prevents Nh5 ...

Those poor ducks could use some good publicity for a change! At least they taste great with teriyaki sauce...

Seriously though, I have a soft spot for 6...Qa5 and wouldn't mind at all if it turns out to be playable. Though there always seems to be a risk of passivity with little to do but wait in some lines.

  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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MartinC
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #13 - 01/01/16 at 19:05:00
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Well, suppose how fine could be debated Smiley

Looks to me like the original question was looking for something that just isn't there vs this line - it's even more slow/flexible than many French lines, so hugely hard to pin down concretely.
  
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tony37
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Play?
Reply #12 - 01/01/16 at 12:45:08
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brabo wrote on 01/01/16 at 04:39:32:
JEH wrote on 12/31/15 at 19:36:42:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 12/31/15 at 17:31:39:
how is White going to crush him? 


Little by little

Indeed and white has plenty of time especially if black is waiting like a duck. As I mentioned earlier white most likely will prepare the breakthrough f4-f5.

but if black doesn't wait like a duck, he's perfectly fine
obviously he doesn't need to play the way Stefan suggests, b6 (iso Ka8 + Rb8) totally stops any queenside attack, g6 prevents Nh5 ...
« Last Edit: 01/01/16 at 15:20:11 by tony37 »  
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brabo
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Re: 6... Qa5 French -- White's Best Way to Pl
Reply #11 - 01/01/16 at 04:39:32
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JEH wrote on 12/31/15 at 19:36:42:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 12/31/15 at 17:31:39:
how is White going to crush him? 


Little by little

Indeed and white has plenty of time especially if black is waiting like a duck. As I mentioned earlier white most likely will prepare the breakthrough f4-f5.
« Last Edit: 03/13/17 at 18:29:15 by dom »  
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