Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 9. d4 Spanish (Read 5578 times)
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 833
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #13 - 12/31/15 at 13:20:31
Post Tools
fling wrote on 12/31/15 at 12:40:12:
15. Nd4 has been played in 5 games, three from before 1970, and two later than 2012. Black has managed to scrape a draw in one of those games...
                   


Two recent games are by Melkumyan. He used it to draw (just) with Van Kampen in the Budesliga and then lost to Smirnov in Sydney 2015. We'll have to see if he tries it again, or whether anyone else is brave enough to challenge the traditional verdict.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1500
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #12 - 12/31/15 at 12:40:12
Post Tools
I see. Apparently, the line has been played 71 times according to Chessbase online. It is amusing to see that in three games, Black has resigned after 11 Bd5 :-D

I didn't look too much in detail at the line. It seemed like Black had some compensation, but not enough and it isn't that easy to get the pawn back. I see that Bologan continues the line with 14...Qf5 15. Nd4! Qg6, which is what Houdini 4 gives as the best line. After the further 16. f3 Bh3 17. Qc2, a line Komodo 8, Houdini and Deep Fritz 13 all evaluates as better for White and given by Bologan, there shouldn't be enough compensation, or is there? What did the article say? Any alternatives for Black other than 14...Qf5?

15. Nd4 has been played in 5 games, three from before 1970, and two later than 2012. Black has managed to scrape a draw in one of those games...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 833
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #11 - 12/31/15 at 10:34:08
Post Tools
fling wrote on 12/30/15 at 22:32:18:
Isn't Black worse after 11. Bd5 Qd7 12 Bxe4 d5 13. Bxh7+ Kxh7 14. dxe5 or what is given in the NIC Yearbook article?


That's certainly mentioned. The question arises as to whether sacrificing a pawn to get the White square Bishop off the board is worthwhile. Personally I didn't think so when I last looked at the line in any detail. Some engines will disagree, evaluating the position as nearly equal. That may account for the recent interest.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1500
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #10 - 12/30/15 at 22:32:18
Post Tools
RdC wrote on 12/30/15 at 14:28:54:
In the New in Chess Yearbook, there has been some advocacy of 9. d4 Bg4 10. Be3 Nxe4,


Isn't Black worse after 11. Bd5 Qd7 12 Bxe4 d5 13. Bxh7+ Kxh7 14. dxe5 or what is given in the NIC Yearbook article?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 833
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #9 - 12/30/15 at 21:27:33
Post Tools
Quote:
Yes 10... Bh5 is an interesting alternative, but I am reasonably confident against that. In my opinion, 11... d5 might be the best line for Black 


They can transpose, one of the ideas behind Bh5 being to follow up with .. d5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
NegiRefutes
Ex Member


Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #8 - 12/30/15 at 16:41:22
Post Tools
Yes 10... Bh5 is an interesting alternative, but I am reasonably confident against that. In my opinion, 11... d5 might be the best line for Black unless White can prove an edge in the 13. Nc3 and 18. Qe2 line.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4466
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #7 - 12/30/15 at 16:29:12
Post Tools
But of course 10. Be3 Bh5 has been around a while, e.g. it came up in a few Yearbooks in the 2000s.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 833
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #6 - 12/30/15 at 14:28:54
Post Tools
Quote:
What is Black's best option in your opinion against 9. d4?

Thanks!


Carlsen went for the long established idea of Bg4, then taking on d4, followed by Nc6-a5-c4 chasing the Bishop back to c1. He then followed up with c5. Detail is relevant, but when playing this recently, it struck me that Black's plan is similar to lines of the Zaitsev.

In the New in Chess Yearbook, there has been some advocacy of 9. d4 Bg4 10. Be3 Nxe4, whilst Bologan in his recent tome on defending the Spanish suggests 10. Be3 Bh5. This can transpose to positions similar to the 10. .. exd4 variations, but doesn't have to.

White has 10. d5 as well.

Let's not forget that 8. d4 can be played as an anti-Marshall, transposing after 8. .. d6 9. c3 if Black declines to play 8. .. exd4 or 8. .. Nxd4.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 902
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #5 - 12/30/15 at 04:54:18
Post Tools

I spent a lot of time analyzing the novelty 23.Nxf3 which is definitely not easy to meet in OTB. I even started to look at the alternative 15... cxd4 although realistically most white players play this stuff exactly to avoid heavy theory.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
NegiRefutes
Ex Member


Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #4 - 12/29/15 at 23:48:00
Post Tools
Yes, its tough to win in this line for correspondence chess players, but in a lot of these lines White has some attacking chances with f4. In my opinion, it is definitely a good idea to have this as an option to surprise your opponents and for OTB chess, I think it deserves more attention than what it is getting.

Also, if Black doesn't know about 15... Rc8, White has the easily more comfortable position and even in correspondence chess White scores over 60%
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #3 - 12/29/15 at 21:24:40
Post Tools
Some correspondence chess games in these variation:

It seems white can't find the right plan for a win in the correspondence chess, for now..  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
NegiRefutes
Ex Member


Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #2 - 12/29/15 at 20:28:24
Post Tools
Sure thing, here you go:

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
proustiskeen
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


Hello from Omaha!

Posts: 637
Joined: 08/11/08
Re: 9. d4 Spanish
Reply #1 - 12/29/15 at 19:01:33
Post Tools
Maybe you should share your improvements before asking us our opinions?
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
NegiRefutes
Ex Member


9. d4 Spanish
12/29/15 at 18:26:04
Post Tools
Now that the Breyer seems to be extremely difficult to crack, why haven't elite players been switching over to 9. d4? When Giri played this against Carlsen, he got a pretty decent position and I also found some improvements over that game. What is Black's best option in your opinion against 9. d4?

Thanks!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo