Stigma wrote on 03/04/16 at 01:15:17:


4.e4 and then 5/6.d4.

kylemeister wrote on 03/03/16 at 16:39:00:

Thanks; nice to know I'm not completely amnesic!

I have to wonder though what the Black players in the DB are thinking when they get the chance to get in that 4.e4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 after their dubious opening choice, yet play something slow instead... White is easily better when he gets the center for free.

That Alekhine-Marshall game is a classic; I first saw it in one of Silman's books and was impressed. It shows Alekhine was also a strong strategic/prophylactic player, not just an attacking/calculating monster.

Bibs wrote on 03/03/16 at 22:15:58:

Thanks Bibs for pointing it out! I looked at what Stigma wrote in reply #2, not the op, and mistakenly put 4. d4 in there!

(After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d5?! 3.cxd5 Nxd5 I believe I have seen 4.Nf3 recommended somewhere (and then 5.e4 if Black doesn't prevent it), and this is the same position as 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 Nf6 (your move order) 3.cxd5 Nxd5 4.d4.)

Sorry for the confusion 

I was talking about what Broznik mentioned in the book and the reason he recommends 4. Nf3. Not how old the idea is, at least that is not what I meant. It is good to know what ECO says, though, helps a lot!

The recommendation is in Beat the Guerillas (if by transposition this is the Marshall defence, right?). This is AFAIK indeed to prevent what you mentioned, e.g  4. e4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5!. I am pretty sure this was mentioned by Bronznik and that he could not find anything substantial for White and therefore White should first play Nf3.

I am also pretty sure I have seen Nf3 recommended in at least another book for the same reason, but can't remember which book it was. It should be one of those mentioned above.

Some of the typical complete 1.d4/2.c4 repertoire books may have something as well (Avrukh, Schandorff, Watson, Grivas etc.).

After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d5?! 3.cxd5 Nxd5 I believe I have seen 4.Nf3 recommended somewhere (and then 5.e4 if Black doesn't prevent it), and this is the same position as 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 Nf6 (your move order) 3.cxd5 Nxd5 4.d4.

[At first I wrote that 4.Nf3 was meant to avoid 4.e4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5!, but I checked a database and nobody plays ...e5 there anyway, so I must have misremembered.]

There are also transpositions to the lines discussed in this thread (also started by TD) if both players cooperate: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1449993694/6#6

This week someone played 2...Nf6 against my Reti. I find it strange that this (for me) annoying move is not mentioned in the books. Only Khalifman does extensive coverage of it. It seems that 3.cxd5 is the best move, but I only played it once on 7 occasions. I have played 3.b3, 3.g3 and 3.d4. Does anybody know where I can find something in the books or DVD's? Or is it so minor that it doesn't have to be mentioned at all?