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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Return to the KID? (Read 17450 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #29 - 07/01/16 at 18:07:10
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barnaby wrote on 04/10/16 at 21:33:46:
I love, LOVE the MDP from the White side but the recent Kotronias book has made me gun shy about it and after playing the main line Ne1 variation for 20+ years now I worry I may have to shelve the whole magilla and make another effort to learn another way to handle the KID.



That's ridiculous, you don't throw away 20+ years of experience because of a new repertoire book (unless you just really want to do something else).  Even when you're "caught out," your experience will often prevail from a slightly worse position.

Caveat that sometimes being caught out in the MDP means getting mated; oh well, such is life.  You learn from it and play the next game--it's just more experience!
  
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barnaby
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #28 - 04/15/16 at 14:33:31
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WSS wrote on 04/12/16 at 12:29:50:
RdC wrote on 04/11/16 at 23:20:39:
chk wrote on 04/11/16 at 13:45:25:
experience is what makes a KID player really dangerous as the positions are a bit messy


Even in a position that's apparently quiet, there can be something available. Here's a game I played at the weekend where my opponent used an old 1950s try by White.


Nice win, RdC.  Thanks for sharing.

I agree, TalJechin, the KID requires some "guts" (or shall we say the ability to play with the initiative and attack even at the cost of material.)  Over time, I had found my own game becoming a bit too "solid" and when I switched to the KID it helped me strengthen (revitalize?) that part of my game.  At least for me, it's fun to get your heart pounding and "go for it" sometimes - even if it doesn't always work out!


Bold emphasis mine.

I've always held the point of the game was to play and that people overly concerned with winning (or losing) have completely missed the point of the endeavour.

The happiest chess players I know are never the ones that are strongest. In fact, they tend to be among the most miserable, especially after they lose.  Poor souls.    Smiley

Mar Del Plata is fun stuff, and while I play for the win from wither side, I never care the end result.  It's all about the action.


Short of being a chess professional the point of any game is to be enjoyable. 

This is why people that play London systems and Colles are the bane of any true gamesmen.   Wink
  
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chk
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #27 - 04/15/16 at 13:36:03
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Nice game RdC, and yes, I suppose guts is an important element too!
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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WSS
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #26 - 04/12/16 at 12:29:50
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RdC wrote on 04/11/16 at 23:20:39:
chk wrote on 04/11/16 at 13:45:25:
experience is what makes a KID player really dangerous as the positions are a bit messy


Even in a position that's apparently quiet, there can be something available. Here's a game I played at the weekend where my opponent used an old 1950s try by White.


Nice win, RdC.  Thanks for sharing.

I agree, TalJechin, the KID requires some "guts" (or shall we say the ability to play with the initiative and attack even at the cost of material.)  Over time, I had found my own game becoming a bit too "solid" and when I switched to the KID it helped me strengthen (revitalize?) that part of my game.  At least for me, it's fun to get your heart pounding and "go for it" sometimes - even if it doesn't always work out!
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #25 - 04/12/16 at 07:32:25
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chk wrote on 04/11/16 at 13:45:25:
Somehow reassuring what both of you say. I suppose experience is what makes a KID player really dangerous as the positions are a bit messy (to say the least)..


Maybe guts is also important? The willingness to follow your intuition and throw the dice with for example a N/B sac for 1-2 pawns - your experience may tell you that it's dubious (and later the engine will say the same), while over the board you force your opponents to prove why, and many (nearly all) of them will miss something in the complications (hopefully you will be able to spot it yourself)...
  
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RdC
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #24 - 04/11/16 at 23:20:39
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chk wrote on 04/11/16 at 13:45:25:
experience is what makes a KID player really dangerous as the positions are a bit messy


Even in a position that's apparently quiet, there can be something available. Here's a game I played at the weekend where my opponent used an old 1950s try by White.




At move 17, there are a couple of previous games. One player just retreated back to a6, whilst the other kept the tactics going with Nxe4.  Parking a replacement Knight on f4 seemed logical and perhaps it would provoke Bxf4. According to an engine, White's errors were at moves 21 and 22, where it was necessary to play Be1. Again according to the engine, White is busted after 22. c5 Qg5, the tempo being necessary to shore up the defence.
  
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chk
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #23 - 04/11/16 at 13:45:25
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Somehow reassuring what both of you say. I suppose experience is what makes a KID player really dangerous as the positions are a bit messy (to say the least)..
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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barnaby
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #22 - 04/10/16 at 21:33:46
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I love, LOVE the MDP from the White side but the recent Kotronias book has made me gun shy about it and after playing the main line Ne1 variation for 20+ years now I worry I may have to shelve the whole magilla and make another effort to learn another way to handle the KID.


If I could get the MDP on board in even 1/3 of KID games as Black I would play the KID like a mofo.  Too many anti-lines and avoidances of the main, principled argument.  To me, that is like going 3,000+ miles to The Prado only to stand outside and look at chalk drawings on the sidewalk instead of what is inside.

Big centers.  Still addicted after all these years.  Even though they are all going to collapse and disappear, I just can't help myself on wanting one!
  
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WSS
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #21 - 04/10/16 at 16:22:22
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chk wrote on 04/10/16 at 09:56:57:
I have recently returned to the KID myself (I had a similar post here sth like a year ago). My experience can be summarised as follows:

- In order to get started videos seem to work a bit better than books, given the numerous ML variations & systems. You could then play a bit and then start utilising also books and/or databases.
- Sidelines & all MLs except the MDP: I quite much feel at home and had decent results OTB. Ironically these were the ones that worried me the most before I decided to give KID another try.
- MDP: For me liking the MDP was fundamental in my decision to opt for the KID. But contrary to what I mention above, I think I seriously lack understanding of what is going on. To be more specific, I do not sense well when my attack runs out of steam and in general how dangerous its potential could be.

I wish I could offer you a "magic formula" to master the MDP - but, of course, I can't.  I find it helpful to play SLOWLY (versus skimming) through games guessing moves, noting patterns and piece placement.  Often the play is balanced on a "knife's edge" but I take comfort in knowing that I have probably spent more time studying this than the player of the White pieces (unless he/she is a King's Indian player themselves!)
  
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chk
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #20 - 04/10/16 at 09:56:57
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I have recently returned to the KID myself (I had a similar post here sth like a year ago). My experience can be summarised as follows:

- In order to get started videos seem to work a bit better than books, given the numerous ML variations & systems. You could then play a bit and then start utilising also books and/or databases.
- Sidelines & all MLs except the MDP: I quite much feel at home and had decent results OTB. Ironically these were the ones that worried me the most before I decided to give KID another try.
- MDP: For me liking the MDP was fundamental in my decision to opt for the KID. But contrary to what I mention above, I think I seriously lack understanding of what is going on. To be more specific, I do not sense well when my attack runs out of steam and in general how dangerous its potential could be.
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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MartinC
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #19 - 04/09/16 at 09:17:21
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TonyRo wrote on 04/08/16 at 19:20:28:
If you're not going to play the Mar Del Plata, what's the point?  Cheesy Grin

I jest. But seriously!  Wink


Well, perhaps you instinctively hate the Mar Del Plata style positions but actually quite like some of the other lines Smiley

Or some of lines vs the English etc you can get if you can at least threaten to play the KID.

That was certainly what I was doing.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #18 - 04/08/16 at 20:47:12
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kylemeister wrote on 04/08/16 at 19:36:59:
TalJechin wrote on 04/08/16 at 19:12:49:
The engine prefers 10...d5 which feels unKIDish though...


Well surely ...d5 is something Black is aiming to play if circumstances are favorable enough.  As far as I know, a big development in this line was when it was shown to be unfavorable after 10. Kh1 by a game Tal-Spassky.


Yeah, but here it feels more like an attempt to force a drawish position. Usually, the break d6-d5, if prepared well, is the start of taking the initiative as Black.

But maybe I'm just old-fashioned - engines have a way of finding ways to force moves through that didn't seem possible, by throwing away most positional considerations. I remember a similar case in the Antoshin Philidor where Nisipeneau played d6-d5 very early - never liked that one either, though admittedly it was probably not intended to force a draw. In the end white usually finds some slight risk-free technical/positional edge in the complications, and black moves on to do something similar in another opening variation...
  
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #17 - 04/08/16 at 19:36:59
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TalJechin wrote on 04/08/16 at 19:12:49:
The engine prefers 10...d5 which feels unKIDish though...


Well surely ...d5 is something Black is aiming to play if circumstances are favorable enough.  As far as I know, a big development in this line was when it was shown to be unfavorable after 10. Kh1 by a game Tal-Spassky.
  
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WSS
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #16 - 04/08/16 at 19:24:29
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TonyRo wrote on 04/08/16 at 19:20:28:
If you're not going to play the Mar Del Plata, what's the point?  Cheesy Grin

I jest. But seriously!  Wink


Haha.  Amen, Tony!
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Return to the KID?
Reply #15 - 04/08/16 at 19:20:28
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If you're not going to play the Mar Del Plata, what's the point?  Cheesy Grin

I jest. But seriously!  Wink
  
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