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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Reversed Grunfeld (Read 12545 times)
TonyRo
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #22 - 02/17/17 at 00:40:18
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Awesome stuff David, thanks for your work and for including my (paltry) thoughts as well.  Grin
  
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IMDavidCummings
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #21 - 02/13/17 at 23:50:14
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The game Matlakov-Akobian from Gibraltar 2017 went down this line, so I included it in my latest Flank Openings Update on Chess Publishing. It followed Svidler-Vallejo Pons for many moves, and again showed that Black can hold the rook endgame a pawn down.

I also referenced some of TonyRo's analysis in the article. Thanks for the great discussion in this thread!
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #20 - 01/18/17 at 01:35:22
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Tauromachie wrote on 01/17/17 at 12:13:07:
My engine wants to play 21.Ba5 Rf8 22.f4 f6 23.fxe5 fxe5 but this has to be fine for black as well. The e5-pawn can be easily defended by Bf6.

Perhaps, but why release the tension right away and give Black ...Bf6 or the open f-file? To me, White looks clearly better after 23.Bc3. Perhaps winning the pawn by force, after which I doubt Black actually has enough (it's likely he can struggle to the half point though). Actually it's funny, the best Komodo comes up with is 24...Rfd8, which exposes the point of the weird Bc3-a5-c3 sortie. On 21.f4 immediately, Black can go 21...Ke8! (Black's development looks quite good now) 22.fxe5 Rc4!, but not when White forces the rook back to f8 for a sec. Shocked
  
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Tauromachie
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #19 - 01/17/17 at 12:13:07
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Funny.. I actually looked at this line yesterday and did some analyses on it.


I came to the same conclusion, 14.Na4!? seems to be critical.
(But I did not noticed the 11.Rd1 idea mentioned by TN, it seems a bit uncomfortable indeed ! )

I dont think however that 14.Na4 should be too serious of a problem. But it is very likely of course, that I overlooked something.

Continuing 14..Be7 (I dont like to part with my precious bishops) 15.Bg5

There are several moves which black can choose from

A) 15..Rhd8 does not give enough compensation imo after the line you mentioned with 16.Bxf6 Bxf6 17.Bxd5 Ke6 18.Bxe6 Kxe6 19.Nc3 no bishop pair anymore for black and the worse minor piece

B) 15..Rc2!? of course needs to be checked as well. 16.Bxf6 Bxf6 17.Bxd5 Ke7 18.Be4 Rc4 19.Nc3 Rb8 and black has some pressure against whites queenside altough it should not really be enough.


C) 15..d4 needs a mention too, the most obvious way too deal with the threat to the d5-pawn
16.e3 Ng4 17.Bxe7 Kxe7 18.h3! (18.exd4 Rc2 gives counterplay) 18..Nf6 19.exd4 should turn out to be clearly in whites favour after either
C1) 19..Rc4 20.dxe5 Rxa4 21.exf6+ Kxf6 22.a3 Rc8 23.Rd2
or
C2) 19..exd4 20.Rxd4 Rc2 21.Rad1 Rb8


D) 15..Ng8!? would be my preference 16.Be3 d4 17.Bd2 Nh6 18.e3 Nf5 19.exd4 Nxd4 20.Bc3 your conclusion about the misplaced black king and the pressure on d4 is of course right but I dont think that it means a lot. Whites knight is misplaced on the rim and the black knight on d4 is a monster, having a nice defensive purpose too as it is blocking the d-file.

Continuing 20..Rhd8! in gambit-style.
Now the principled 21.Bxd4 exd4 22.Rxd4+ Ke8 23.Rxd8+ Rxd8 is of course nothing for white as blacks bishops are liberated and have a nice scope all over the board and the rook eyes the second rank. Full compensation.

My engine wants to play 21.Ba5 Rf8 22.f4 f6 23.fxe5 fxe5 but this has to be fine for black as well. The e5-pawn can be easily defended by Bf6.


Therefore I would prefere 15..Ng8 atm.

  
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TonyRo
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #18 - 01/17/17 at 02:16:29
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For whatever reason when I go to record a game for my YT channel, it seems like it's always a Reversed Grünfeld. Combine that with the Bartholomew-Gustafsson game from their streamed match, I decided to take a look at this line a while back. It seems to me like the entire concept is risky for Black if White finds 13...Bc5 14.Na4! instead of taking on d5, unless somehow I've been looking at the wrong position entirely. My analyzed is published in the following lichess study: https://en.lichess.org/study/lta7bEDd.
  
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #17 - 01/16/17 at 21:08:40
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TN wrote on 04/28/16 at 01:11:19:
The whole concept seems very decent for Black, however I've managed to find a path where White can claim a much easier to play endgame


I've had the position at move 8 a couple of times recently and used the plan of playing Nc3 and Bg5 before Qa4. There's a critical difference to the position with reverse colours, that White gets to play Rb1, but Black doesn't get Rb8. This means that if the d pawn goes forward, when White takes on c6 it hits the Rook. In the Grunfeld proper, the Rook is on b1, so it's a playable pawn sacrifice. Without a need to defend the b2 pawn, Bg5 is more playable than in the reverse position.

There's actually a little tactical trick that provided White isn't playing Qxc6 with check, the pawn can be left undefended because of .. Rc8 threatening Rxc4. With the Queen removed from d1, Rad1 or Rfd1 intensifying the pressure on d5 is possible. A similar idea was seen in the Grunfeld proper with Rfd8.
  
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TN
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #16 - 04/28/16 at 01:11:19
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The whole concept seems very decent for Black, however I've managed to find a path where White can claim a much easier to play endgame:



Otherwise you can transpose to Catalan waters with 5...e6 6.c4 dxc4, or avoid the issue altogether with 3...Nf6 4.0-0 e6. And one shouldn't forget the Karjakin move order 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 c5 3.Bg2 Nc6 (the point being that d4 loses its sting when ...d5 was not yet played) 4.0-0 e5, like in the following game:

  

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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #15 - 04/27/16 at 18:38:25
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I notice that Svidler-Vallejo is comparable to Alekhine-Vidmar, Nottingham 1936, which went 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cd Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bc c5 7. Be3 Bg7 8. Nf3 Nc6 9. h3 O-O 10. Qd2 Qa5 11. Bc4 cd 12. cd Qxd2+ 13. Kxd2 Rd8.  Now Alekhine considered 14. Bd5 (which he played) and 14. Kc3 as better for Black, but apparently he should have thought of 14. Rac1.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #14 - 04/27/16 at 17:41:42
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This variation was also featured in a John Bartholomew - Jan Gustafsson blitz match on C24, where he alluded to the fact that this line was a Vallejo Pons speciality. Bartholomew also got nothing, as did I, in a recent game! It seems like White needs something other than heading into this ending, or something even earlier.  Angry
  
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #13 - 04/27/16 at 12:20:09
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kylemeister wrote on 04/27/16 at 07:16:53:
But the Spanish player demonstrated that White cannot generate an advantage from his extra tempo."


Here's the whole game.



Black employed a reverse Be3, Qd2 system and traded queens on d7. The pawn on d5 fell, but in circumstances where the resulting ending could be held a pawn down.

Svidler and Pons were by no means the first to explore the variation but amongst the first, if not the first, where both players were established top GMs.
  
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #12 - 04/27/16 at 09:07:20
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kylemeister wrote on 04/27/16 at 07:16:53:
From the latest CBM:  "The game Svidler-Vallejo Pons, Reykjavik 2015, came as a great surprise for Igor Stohl, because it involved the employment of the Exchange Variation of the Grünfeld Defence by White [sic]. But the Spanish player demonstrated that White cannot generate an advantage from his extra tempo." 

Shocked

Thanks for the info! It looks like you/they are right.
  
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #11 - 04/27/16 at 07:16:53
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From the latest CBM:  "The game Svidler-Vallejo Pons, Reykjavik 2015, came as a great surprise for Igor Stohl, because it involved the employment of the Exchange Variation of the Grünfeld Defence by White [sic]. But the Spanish player demonstrated that White cannot generate an advantage from his extra tempo." 

Shocked
  
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #10 - 04/16/16 at 09:42:53
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Stigma wrote on 04/15/16 at 09:47:16:
I don't know much about the specifics here, or I would be more specific.



When playing this, I usually found that we would reach a main line tabiya of the Rubinstein line against the Tarrasch. So 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nf6 4. O-O Nc6 5. d4 e6 6. c4 Be7 7. cxd5 exd5 8. Nc3 O-O

Many move orders are possible to reach this position. 9. dxc5 has been the most popular move recently, perhaps because of a book advocating the line 9. Bg5 c4 .


  
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #9 - 04/16/16 at 07:05:58
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MartinC wrote on 04/16/16 at 05:08:27:
Thinking about it, I have a vague feeling Watson might points out that that isn't so bad for Black in one of those 5 chess openings explained books. Can't check it just now though.

I also couldn't find it in his 4 Mastering books. Just a paragraph about the KIA.
  
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Re: Reversed Grunfeld
Reply #8 - 04/16/16 at 05:08:27
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Thinking about it, I have a vague feeling Watson might points out that that isn't so bad for Black in one of those 5 chess openings explained books. Can't check it just now though.
  
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