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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Response to London system for a KID player? (Read 11432 times)
fling
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #19 - 05/13/16 at 20:09:14
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PatzerNoster wrote on 05/13/16 at 16:18:04:
@fling: you got a point.
As the c3 Sicilian, the London System can also be played for the full point.
It's just that most people don't play it that way.


This comment I completely agree with!
  
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PatzerNoster
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #18 - 05/13/16 at 16:18:04
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@fling: you got a point.
As the c3 Sicilian, the London System can also be played for the full point.
It's just that most people don't play it that way.
  
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fling
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #17 - 05/13/16 at 06:43:50
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PatzerNoster wrote on 05/13/16 at 00:17:29:
However it is clear that the London System is mostly played be weaker players trying to get a draw (which was also the case in my game), so that kind of dead equality was not my aim, even if it could be objectively best.


Yes, indeed. Kamsky, Bronstein, Kovacevic, Danielsen, Kotov are all weak players known to look for easy draws. Not to mention the weak Karjakin and Carlsen  Grin

(Yes, I noticed your 'mostly')
  
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PatzerNoster
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #16 - 05/13/16 at 00:17:29
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@kylemeister: yes, I think your approach is completely valid. Also 12.b4 Nd5 13.Qb3 cb4: 14.cb4: a5 seems to lead to equality.

However it is clear that the London System is mostly played be weaker players trying to get a draw (which was also the case in my game), so that kind of dead equality was not my aim, even if it could be objectively best.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #15 - 05/10/16 at 20:32:31
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PatzerNoster wrote on 05/10/16 at 19:35:12:
I had Black against the London in a recent game and played the plan outlined above with Ra7 and Qa8.
However my opponent forgot about the e4-plan and instead played on the queenside with b4.
I soon hated the rook on a7 which was very difficult to get into the game.

Instead I would rather play RdC's plan with Rc8-c7 and (if necessary) Qa8 next.


I wonder if you could have played like in a game Deepan Chakkravarthy-David:  11...Ra7 (incidentally this was given as leading to equality in NCO) 12. b4 Qa8 13. Qb3 cb 14. cb Bd5 15. Qb2 Rc8 16. Rfc1 Rac7 17. Rxc7 Rxc7 (1/2-1/2).
  
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #14 - 05/10/16 at 19:35:12
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I had Black against the London in a recent game and played the plan outlined above with Ra7 and Qa8.
However my opponent forgot about the e4-plan and instead played on the queenside with b4.
I soon hated the rook on a7 which was very difficult to get into the game.

Instead I would rather play RdC's plan with Rc8-c7 and (if necessary) Qa8 next.
  
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mjelcic
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #13 - 05/09/16 at 07:13:03
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Thank you all for advices. You gave me a lot of good ideas and I hope I'll use it well...
  
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #12 - 05/08/16 at 17:15:09
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ULIFT wrote on 05/08/16 at 09:55:27:
I got this position in a recent game and played Rc8, but there is a more interesting idea in Ra7!? 


You can borrow ideas from the Reti. Another way of getting the Queen to a8 is to first play Ra8-c8-c7.

Having played Ra2 and Qa1 in a Reti, I regard putting the Queen in the corner as moving it away from influence on the game.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #11 - 05/08/16 at 17:11:24
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RdC wrote on 05/08/16 at 09:18:18:
[quote author=382A3F363E363A20273621530 link=1462469789/6#6 date=1462558902]
There's what used to be called the Kramer system where White combines Bf4 with playing normally by c4 and Nc3. But isn't it otherwise preprogrammed that the Knight will move from b1 to d2?


I know of the Kramer as the line with 5. Nge2; I think I've seen the one you're talking about called the Bisguier system.  But when you have c4 coming later such as 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bf4 Bg7 4. e3 d6 5. h3 0-0 6. Be2 Nbd7 7. 0-0 Qe8 8. Bh2 e5 9. c4, I don't think you would call it anything but a London.

The knight can go to a3, like in this kind of thing:  1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c3 Bg7 4.Bf4 d6 5.h3 O-O 6.e3 Nbd7 7.Be2 Qe8 8.O-O e5 9.Bh2 Qe7 10.a4 a5 11.Re1 b6 12.Na3 Bb7 13.Nb5 (from an old game Hort-Pribyl, and here Euwe gave 13...Ne8 as equal). 

Such lines are also known in reversed-color versions, like basically everything that has been (or could be) mentioned in this thread.  For instance the sort of ...c5 stuff played in the old Kamsky-Benjamin game was seen (and introduced, as far as I know) in Korchnoi-Polugaevsky from the USSR vs. World rematch (1984).   
  
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ULIFT
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #10 - 05/08/16 at 09:55:27
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Two suggestions for you.  The first is RdC's suggestion with b6/c5 (you can play either move first).  There are of course many possible moves and move orders here, but I'll just mention one interesting idea, which comes after the moves: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. Nf3 O-O 5. Be2 d6 6. h3 b6 7. O-O Bb7 8. a4 a6 (so a5 can be met with b5) 9. Nbd2 Nbd7 10. Bh2 c5 11. c3  I got this position in a recent game and played Rc8, but there is a more interesting idea in Ra7!?  The plan is to play Qa8, thereby containing White's idea of Bd3 and e4, which is typical in this line.

Another interesting idea is 6...Nfd7, which does allow you to get the typical KID e5 in, and play more aggressively.  I would look into this, but I'm already pretty comfortable with the b6/c5 setup, and you don't really need two setups against the London.  It scores very well, and has been played by Radjabov (in a fast game against Carlsen) and other strong GMs.
  
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RdC
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #9 - 05/08/16 at 09:18:18
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kylemeister wrote on 05/06/16 at 18:21:42:
One thing is that of course ..Nc6 and ...Re8 generally wouldn't be sufficient to get in ...e5 (just as ...Nbd7 and ...Re8 wouldn't) if White hasn't played Nbd2 blocking the d-file.
                   



There's what used to be called the Kramer system where White combines Bf4 with playing normally by c4 and Nc3. But isn't it otherwise preprogrammed that the Knight will move from b1 to d2?

There's another trick in the Nc6 systems. If White tries d5 (when it's not en prise) with the pawn on e7, the move e7-e5 hitting the Bishop should be possible. When the Bishop drops back to g3 or h2, you then have Nc6-e7.
  
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #8 - 05/08/16 at 08:35:25
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mjelcic wrote on 05/05/16 at 17:36:29:
What is the best response for a KID player to London system?


Eric Prié's material in the playable eBook (http://www.chesspublishing.com/p/8/cbebooks.htm) is the best there is.
  
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Zatara
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #7 - 05/07/16 at 18:56:39
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I would recommend c5!!, A good friend who plays London says vs c5 he has no plan.  Vs e5 systems he pushes on the queenside.  ALso buy Dembo's book on the Anti KiD!!!
cheers,
Marc
  
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #6 - 05/06/16 at 18:21:42
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One thing is that of course ..Nc6 and ...Re8 generally wouldn't be sufficient to get in ...e5 (just as ...Nbd7 and ...Re8 wouldn't) if White hasn't played Nbd2 blocking the d-file.
  
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #5 - 05/06/16 at 07:38:58
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RdC wrote on 05/05/16 at 22:19:14:
mjelcic wrote on 05/05/16 at 21:04:50:
Thank you for your reply, it seems pretty good I will give it a try, even though I allways try to play e5 at some point in KID, but I will do exception next time.



There's another idea. You play Nf6, g6, Bg7, O-O, d6. Then you play a provocative .. Nc6. If they've played Nbd2, they cannot respond with d5.


I like that. So I guess than I'll play Re8 and there shouldn't be problem with moving e5 pawn.
  
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #4 - 05/05/16 at 23:33:02
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Among the other possibilities, I'll mention a game which stuck in my memory:  Kamsky-Benjamin, on the way to the former winning the US championship in 1991.  When they played in the same event 22 years later, Kamsky varied, and this time managed to draw  Smiley  By the way, that kind of thing was last addressed in Chess Publishing last December.
  
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #3 - 05/05/16 at 22:19:14
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mjelcic wrote on 05/05/16 at 21:04:50:
Thank you for your reply, it seems pretty good I will give it a try, even though I allways try to play e5 at some point in KID, but I will do exception next time.



There's another idea. You play Nf6, g6, Bg7, O-O, d6. Then you play a provocative .. Nc6. If they've played Nbd2, they cannot respond with d5.
  
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mjelcic
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #2 - 05/05/16 at 21:04:50
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Thank you for your reply, it seems pretty good I will give it a try, even though I allways try to play e5 at some point in KID, but I will do exception next time.
  
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Re: Response to London system for a KID player?
Reply #1 - 05/05/16 at 20:50:14
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mjelcic wrote on 05/05/16 at 17:36:29:
What is the best response for a KID player to London system?


A reversed Reti can work reasonably enough. In no particular order you play Nf6, g6, Bg7, O-O, d6, c5, b6, Bb7, Nbd7. You then need to find squares for the two Rooks and the Queen. You could play .. Qc7, Rc8 and then Qb8 possibly with Qa8 to follow. The Rook on f8 can go to e8.


  
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Response to London system for a KID player?
05/05/16 at 17:36:29
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What is the best response for a KID player to London system? I recently played a game and lost it, and now I would like to find a good way of playing against it...
  
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