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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies (Read 33979 times)
AJZ
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #19 - 05/27/16 at 16:50:26
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alyechin wrote on 05/27/16 at 15:56:24:
In my opinion the Pirc is an opening to beat weaker players, especially on club level, because many club players have antitodes against the sicilian, but they have no idea against the Pirc.


Weaker opponent or not, Pirc is so rich strategically that can cost a full point both.
  
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #18 - 05/27/16 at 16:44:59
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Michael Ayton & Bibs:
You are right - in the excerpt Davis mentions Olsson-Davies when the knight is on c6 and e5 is comming. He thinks that White has nothing (page 103).

There is a sample with a part of the Austrian attack and the index of lines here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pirc-Move-Nigel-Davies/dp/1781943206/ref=pd_ybh_a_7?ie=...
2nd & 3rd moves alternatives are also included.
  
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alyechin
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #17 - 05/27/16 at 15:56:24
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In my opinion the Pirc is an opening to beat weaker players, especially on club level, because many club players have antitodes against the sicilian, but they have no idea against the Pirc.
  
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Bibs
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #16 - 05/27/16 at 14:44:52
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I do tend to agree there.
To explain why to people unfamiliar.
The ...a6/a4 exchange can be seen to benefit black in the sense that the c6 knight is safer. Why? No Bb5, ever.
Plus the b4 square is opened up as a possible.
And the knight is often happy on c6 anyway in the classical. A regular square for it.
This was an absolute Pirc car crash from SM. Ugh.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #15 - 05/27/16 at 14:27:49
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Just off the top of my head I'm tempted to be sceptical about Black's seventh move! With a4/a6 in I always thought Black should be putting the Knight on c6. (Something which Nigel Davies likes doing in lots of Pirc-Modern positions, as I recall ...)
  
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #14 - 05/27/16 at 14:14:58
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Just finished, ouch:

Harikrishna v Mamedyarov

1 e4 d6
2 d4 Nf6
3 Nc3 g6
4 Be3 a6
5 a4 Bg7
6 Nf3 O-O
7 Qd2 Nbd7
8 h3 e5
9 dxe5 dxe5
10 Bc4 b6
11 O-O Bb7
12 Rfd1 Qe7
13 Nd5 Nxd5
14 Bxd5 Bxd5
15 Qxd5 Nf6
16 Qc4 Rfe8
17 c3 a5
18 Rd3 Qe6
19 Qxc7 Nxe4
20 Rad1 Bf6
21 Nd2 Nxd2
22 R1xd2 e4
23 Rd6 Be5
24 Rxe6 Bxc7
25 Rc6 Rec8
26 Kf1 Bd8
27 Rcd6 Rab8
28 Rd7 Bf6
29 Bf4 Ra8
30 Rb7 Rc6
31 Rdd7 Rd8
32 Rxd8+ Bxd8
33 Rb8
1-0
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #13 - 05/19/16 at 15:08:18
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@ Confused_by_Theory

A quick look at 4 Be3 a6 5 f4 Bg7 suggests to me this might well be OK for Black too!


@ TN

My apologies -- when I wrote my last post I'd completely forgotten my own notes! Your 7 g4! still looks to me a refutation of 5 h3 Nbd7, but I believe Black should play 5 ...Bg7 after all, and meet 6 g4 with 6 ...h5!? 7 g5 Nfd7 (8 Bg2 c5). On 6 f4, I believe 6 ...0-0 7 Nf3 (7 Qf3!? e5) Nc6!? is the way to go, e.g. 8 Qd2 e5, or 8 e5 Nh5 9 Kf2 f6. Obviously it's far too early to talk in terms of clear equality, but at least it's beginning to look like potential counterplay!
  
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #12 - 05/19/16 at 10:39:47
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Hello.

Michael Ayton wrote on 05/18/16 at 20:06:54:
After something like 6 Bd3 0-0 7 Ne2 (if White goes f5 Black's e-file counterplay comes too quickly surely) f5! White might have a small edge, but can he really make any progress when his a-pawn is sicklier than Black's and Black can pile up on e4?

Having looked at the position after 10.bxc3 a bit deeper I can say that you are right that it should be problematic to make progress.
The light squares are a problem for white after black plays Be6 (plan Bd5, Qf7). Also white's pieces are quite defensively placed and his extra pawn is hard to make use of.

Michael Ayton wrote on 05/18/16 at 20:06:54:
Have you any thoughts, I wonder, on Black's best move orders in the 4 ...a6 5 Qd2 lines (with 7 g4 or 7 0-0-0 as above)? Is Moskalenko's book useful here?

Don't play 4...a6 much and can't pretend to understand the best ways of handling the positions. Already at black's sixth I am confused about the ramifications of playing each of (6...Nbd7, 6...Bg7 and 6...Bb7) and have not bothered to find out really.

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Be3 a6 5.Qd2 b5
5...Bg7 6.Bh6 is pretty much known to be bad.
5...Nbd7 6.Nf3 and the knight on d7 is ugly.
6.f3
6.Bd3 I don't see how could possibly be better compared to 6.f3, though maybe it has some deep point/-s that I don't understand.
6.0-0-0 allows 6...b4 with instant counterplay.
6...Nbd7 (Most popular)
6...Bg7!?
6...Bb7!?

About Moskalenkos book. Some lines are given on what he calls the 4...a6 Sämisch and (very) maybe one can have some limited use of the book when studying this variation.

  
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #11 - 05/18/16 at 20:06:54
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@ Confused_by_Theory

I haven't looked at 4 Be3 a6 5 f4 Bg7 yet, but after 5 ...b5 my feeling is that the line you give holds few terrors for Black. After something like 6 Bd3 0-0 7 Ne2 (if White goes f5 Black's e-file counterplay comes too quickly surely) f5! White might have a small edge, but can he really make any progress when his a-pawn is sicklier than Black's and Black can pile up on e4?

Have you any thoughts, I wonder, on Black's best move orders in the 4 ...a6 5 Qd2 lines (with 7 g4 or 7 0-0-0 as above)? Is Moskalenko's book useful here?


@ TN

I'm not sure about the blanket 'no equality in the Pirc' bit, but so far, after 4 ...a6 5 h3 Nbd7 (I always thought 5 ...Bg7 here was just bad because of 6 g4!) 6 Nf3 e5 your 7 g4! looks to me a good catch (unfortunately)! To be honest, I always thought 6 ...e5 looked a bit funny. Could there be mileage in 6 ...e6, or even 6 ...c6, I wonder?

  
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #10 - 05/18/16 at 16:17:52
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1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 a6 5.h3 Bg7 6.g4!? 0-0 7.Nge2 Nfd7 8.Bg2 seems a pretty decent shot at an edge. I'm not so sure about 5...Nbd7, I guess 6.Nf3 e5 7.g4 could be considered an improved version of a Shirov Gambit of the Philidor.

In short - no equality in the Pirc, but certainly complex, interesting play!
  

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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #9 - 05/17/16 at 12:37:17
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Hello.

Michael Ayton wrote on 05/17/16 at 10:54:36:
I've often wondered about 5 f4. I guess Black's choice is to go into a Modern with 5 ...Bg7 or else try 5 ...b5!? (which engines seem to favour). Any thoughts on this? The position seems quite weird and unlike many other Pircs ...
Some thoughts:

(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Be3 a6 5.f4 b5)
(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Be3 a6 5.f4 Ng4)
(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Be3 a6 5.f4 Bg7)

Are the reasonable continuations imo.

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Be3 a6 5.f4 b5 6.e5
looks quite strong. For example:
6...b4
6...Ng4 7.Bd2! (not 7.Bc1 mentioned in Chess Developments the Pirc p.160) and black's position does not make sense.
7.Qf3 c6
7...Ra7 8.Nd1 Ng4 9.e6! looks horrible for black.
8.exf6!? bxc3 9.fxe7 Qxe7 10.bxc3
And I don't think this is a position where black has sufficient compensation for the pawn.


1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Be3 a6 5.f4 Ng4
Is reasonable but releases the pressure on the e4 pawn.
6.Bc1 Bg7 7.Nf3 b5!?
7...0-0 8.Bd3 gives white good coordination.
8.h3
And black would like to play the following as others don't really look appealing.
8...Nf6
Alas.
9.e5! Nfd7
9...Ng4 10.Bd3 is also good for white.
10.h4!
Is a standard idea that seems to work well.

So for me 5...Bg7 seems best when a plausible line is:

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Be3 a6 5.f4 Bg7 6.Nf3 b5!?
With a complex position.
6...0-0 transposes to a not so good looking sideline of the 6.Be3 Austrian btw.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #8 - 05/17/16 at 10:54:36
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"the Najdorf of the future", I love it! A Najdorf with no Antis! ...

If you've any analysis after 5 h3 Bg7 you can share without giving away secrets I'd be v. interested! But 5 h3 Nbd7!?, discussed on here not long ago, is I hope still unrefuted ...

I've often wondered about 5 f4. I guess Black's choice is to go into a Modern with 5 ...Bg7 or else try 5 ...b5!? (which engines seem to favour). Any thoughts on this? The position seems quite weird and unlike many other Pircs ...
  
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #7 - 05/17/16 at 06:20:11
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4.Be3 a6 sometimes feels to me like the Najdorf of the future - a potentially strong positional idea that may need some deep analysis in very sharp critical lines to fully justify it. Recently, I had some untested ideas against the critical 5.h3 Bg7 6.f4 fueled by a crazy piece sacrifice that turned up in some engine analysis. This line was recommended in Kornev's repertoire, so it will probably increase in popularity, but 5.f4 is also very important, which is even rarer. I haven't come to a clear conclusion on 5.f4 yet, but my main takeaway was that these lines can be very sharp and deserve more attention!
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #6 - 05/16/16 at 20:29:04
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My first thought on seeing the excerpt was that this looks as though it could be a typical Davies opening book. I think his books can be inspiring, but also rather broad-brush and omissive sometimes ...

It looks to me like this is the case here with his treatment of the 4 Be3 a6 5 Qd2 b5 6 f3 Nbd7 line. As well as being quite sharp and critical this is also surely quite strategically rich, and it seems a pity that Davies passes over White's attacking ideas with only one glanced-at example (7 g4 Nb6 8 Nd1!? h5 9 g5 Nfd7, Hansen-Hillarp Persson). I presume 8 g5 here (iso 8 Nd1) 'should' be met by 8 ...Nfd7 (though 8 ...Nh5 has been played), 8 h4 by 8 ...h5, and 8 0-0-0 by 8 ...Bb7 (though 8 ...c6!? has been seen), but coverage would have been welcome.

And what about 7 0-0-0? You could think 7 ...Bb7 might be the main line since now 8 g4 Nb6 transposes to 7 g4 Nb6 8 0-0-0 Bb7, but then it's logical to think 7 ...Nb6 could be better since now 8 g4 allows Hillarp Persson's 'typical manoeuvre' of 8 ..h5 9 g5 Nfd7 semi-sealing the kingside. (But then 8 h4!? might be stronger than it would be after 7 ...Bb7.) Has theory here coalesced at all or is it still in flux? Does Moskalenko (whose book I haven't got) cover this?

And what about (desirable/inferior) transpositions to the Modern via ...Bg7, as is quite common after the unmentioned 7 h4 (though 7 ...Nb6 [8 g4 h5!] might still be best?) but rarer after 8 g4? Guidance from the grandmaster would have been appreciated!


  
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Re: The Pirc: Move by Move by Nigel Davies
Reply #5 - 05/14/16 at 05:25:36
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Bibs wrote on 05/14/16 at 01:41:22:
Perhaps this is meant for note-taking?!


A useful feature Smiley

My first copy of Pirc Alert?! is riddled with my notes. In another book without such space, I had to resort to stapling my notes in on seperate pieces of paper.

I'm also dismantling some of my opening books, just taking the bits I want, stapling in my own notes, and re-constructing my own Frankenstein's monster of a repertoire tome  Shocked



 
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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