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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Shamkir Gashimov Memorial (Read 9820 times)
Keano
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #22 - 06/05/16 at 06:40:02
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just congratulating Mamedyarov on a fine tournament, not meant to reference any of your posts GabrielGale. the draw stuff is a separate argument entirely!

Dont forget this is primarily a thread on the tournament itself. I have my views on the other issue, and as it happens dont think this tournament was unduly affected, but perhaps that topic warrants a separate thread entirely.
« Last Edit: 06/05/16 at 13:52:21 by Keano »  
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GabrielGale
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #21 - 06/05/16 at 03:00:41
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Keano wrote on 06/04/16 at 17:47:38:
What was that peaceful draw stuff?  Wink

Now, that was a bit unnecessary. Again, either you are trying make joke (Ha!Ha!) or you are trying to take the piss and deliberately misreading my post. Sheeeeesh! They won against non-Azeris in last round, kudos! But someone a little bit less generous will say that drawing the earlier games (and tournament rules meant they have to paired against each other in the earlier rounds to prevent any collusion) by playing on auto-pilot (except for one decisive game) meant that the Azeris can reserve their energy (physical and mental) for the non-Azeris. which looks like what may have happened (this is just speculation in case someone does not read English and misunderstand again!). This is speculation, I repeat.
I point to the Asian Continental where two of the Indian players won with Black in last round which meant one of them came first. But in that tournament, it is a Swiss, and no signs of draws in earlier rounds.
BTW, without suggesting there being any deliberate strategy in this case, this was also part of the complaint in the Caracao tournament, that the Soviets reserved their energy for the games with the non-Soviets.
This is my last post in this thread. Not worth posting anymore with the "mis-communication".
Salut! Ciao!
  

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Keano
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #20 - 06/04/16 at 17:47:38
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Well done to Mamedyarov looks like.

Think he's beaten Giri in the last rd and then beaten Caruana in the blitz playoff.

What was that peaceful draw stuff?  Wink
  
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Keano
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #19 - 06/03/16 at 11:32:40
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Indeed. A bit disappointing the end of the Karjakin-Radjabov game mind.

Update - but the post match interview / post mortem was fantastic  Smiley
« Last Edit: 06/04/16 at 02:29:46 by Keano »  
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cheese111
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #18 - 06/02/16 at 16:34:31
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And... Mamedyarov ends the Azerbaijani-Azerbaijani drawing streak.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #17 - 06/02/16 at 08:29:37
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Not even remotely nowadays - just one of these Nf3,g3,Bg2 things that they've been resorting to to avoid forced lines with some regularity. Got an interesting looking position out of it as it happens.
  
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GabrielGale
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #16 - 06/02/16 at 07:13:28
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@ Keano and Bibs, not really that sensitive and my second missive was not aimed at Keano but rather at #4. But does not really matter as I do not wish to belabour the point.
As Keano mentioned, let's move on. and discuss the games.
Two points: 1) Is Caruana going to do another "Fabi Caruana" a la Sinquefield Cup?
2) There were some internet chatter (including tweet from Chess24) about Anish Giri's 1 Nf3 opening. Haven't had time to check it out as yet but is it really that unusual?
  

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Keano
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #15 - 06/01/16 at 18:21:00
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Bibs wrote on 06/01/16 at 12:04:18:
For goodness sake. I appreciate it is the internet and all, but is it possible to lay off this kind of behaviour?
GG said it looked iffy.
That was my impression too as it happens.
Others do not have that impression. Okay.
We don't need to be picking over each other's words, trying to score points or something.

Let's try to be nicer to each other. And, indeed, to anyone we meet. Just...try to be nice. Deal?

Right, let's see if it's full p(o)ints or draws today....

Cheers,
B


I thought I was being nice, no intention of points scoring. Its a discussion, no more no less.

Looking again and cant see anything at all untoward in this thread, are chess players really such sensitive souls? I think not.

Lets carry on. Re the Caro game it might be slightly suspicious alright.

eh... but final thoughts. I suggest we get back to the actual chess - both Caruana and Giri seem to be playing some great stuff here. The Caruana-Radjabov Rossolimo I particularly enjoyed.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #14 - 06/01/16 at 13:41:51
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Today. Clock times: 1:08, 1:35. Well prepared, clearly.
Fair enough, I'm not one for getting home from work late.

1 e4 c6
2 d4 d5
3 Nc3 dxe4
4 Nxe4 Bf5
5 Ng3 Bg6
6 h4 h6
7 Nf3 Nf6
8 Ne5 Bh7
9 Bd3 Nbd7
10 Bxh7 Nxe5
11 dxe5 Qa5+
12 Kf1 Nxh7
13 e6 Qd5
14 Qxd5 cxd5
15 Ne2 fxe6
16 Nf4 Rg8
17 Nxe6 Rc8
18 c3 Kf7
19 Nxf8 Rgxf8
20 Be3 Nf6
21 Bxa7 b6
22 Bxb6 Rb8
23 Bd4 Rxb2
24 a4 e5
25 Bxe5 Ng4
26 Bd4 Nxf2
27 Bxf2 Kg8
28 Kg1 Rfxf2
29 Rh2 Ra2
30 Rxa2 Rxa2
31 g3 Ra1+
32 Kf2 Ra2+
33 Kg1 Ra1+
34 Kf2 Ra2+
35 Kg1 Ra1+
36 Kf2
1/2-1/2
  
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Bibs
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #13 - 06/01/16 at 12:04:18
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For goodness sake. I appreciate it is the internet and all, but is it possible to lay off this kind of behaviour?
GG said it looked iffy.
That was my impression too as it happens.
Others do not have that impression. Okay.
We don't need to be picking over each other's words, trying to score points or something.

Let's try to be nicer to each other. And, indeed, to anyone we meet. Just...try to be nice. Deal?

Right, let's see if it's full p(o)ints or draws today....

Cheers,
B
  
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Keano
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #12 - 06/01/16 at 09:53:42
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GabrielGale wrote on 05/30/16 at 09:35:34:
Without trying to hijack the thread, but was about to start a thread on this tournament. Wanted to pose the following question for ChessPubbers to digest and ruminate:
"What is your opinion of a tournament where 4 of the players are from the same country and they are all drawing their games with each other?"
I am not suggesting any blatant unethical behaviour such as match fixing (nothing like Bobby Fischer's allegations of the Curacao tournament).
But surely there is a whiff of "unsporting-like" behaviour? After all what is the point of a tournament where there are going to be a guaranteed 6 drawn games.


sorry I took from that comment you felt there was a whiff of pre-arrangement. If not I cannot see how we'll have 6 guaranteed draws.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #11 - 05/31/16 at 04:44:34
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I noticed just from the games themselves.
ChessBase are also making a clear point there, as quoted.

Azeri barman: 'Pint?'
Chess player: 'No, just a half'
  
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GabrielGale
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #10 - 05/31/16 at 04:12:44
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Please read carefully what I wrote.
I did not suggest "pre-arranged" draws which as rightly pointed out is Curacao. I pointed to an observable (perhaps) phenomenon.
All I am opining is what is the point of a tournament where money is spent where the same players do not engage with the game or try to win? and as pointed out, in the memory of a remarkable player. But, I acknowledge it is their money to spend as they wish.
Again without actual proof (admissible in a court of law), this is just speculation. I acknowledge, my speculation.
We debate and complain of the draws being the death of chess but other anomalies are accepted. (another anomaly is the discussion of games while the game is going on with friends and acquaintances).

But here are extracts from  CB report by GM Ramirez (a more qualified commentator than I/me):
Rd 2:
Quote:
Mamedov, Rauf ½-½ Radjabov, Teimour
The Azerbaijani vs. Azerbaijani games are usually not the most interesting ones of the tournament, and this was no exception.

Rd 3:
Quote:
Safarli, Eltaj ½-½ Mamedov, Rauf
The King's Indian almost always promises an exciting game, but somehow Safarli and Mamedov managed to find a way to trade pieces and force a repetition.

Rd 4 :
Quote:
Radjabov, Teimour ½-½ Safarli, Eltaj
The game seemed pretty interesting on move 17. Five moves later all the pieces had disappeared and the dead draw result was clear to everyone.

Today's on Rd 5: Quote:
Mamedyarov, Shakhriyar ½-½ Mamedov, Rauf
The players repeated 24 moves of Ponomariov-Shirov, 2011 and then drew three moves after that.
  

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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #9 - 05/31/16 at 03:13:50
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I mis-typed. I meant to say that the opponent had played the same initial moves against the C-K four rounds earlier (and won).
  
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Bibs
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #8 - 05/31/16 at 01:28:04
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My friend was black.
  
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #7 - 05/31/16 at 01:21:35
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Bibs wrote on 05/30/16 at 23:32:29:
I would not suggest pre-arranged. As much because one could never know as anything else. Being a rational sort, I would only ever wish something to be provable.

But, like CbT above, I noted the petering out effect. It leapt out at me. But, y'know, whatever. If locals there are happy, fine, I guess.

Incidentally, while many can be suspected, I only know directly of one deliberate pre-arranged draw.
Well-known author and IM playing capable junior. IM tells junior the page number of a Caro-Kann book, the game reference, to get a seemingly complex draw. Repetition or perpetual, I forget which, but I guess I could look it up.
Junior looks it up, and it duly gets played. Neither bother to act very well though, on the top boards, visible to the crowd. @Plymouth, 1992 iirc.
I know because the junior, a friend and age group peer, told me.
That to me just seems like it is wholly taking the p*** out of those watching.

**Curious, I did look it up.
No repetition or perpetual, just quickly moved to a symmetrical structure. Still very early to agree a draw, but it was agreed. Well, saved energy, and I guess people could go off and look at some ships there or something.**




Your friend was just well-prepared, since the same opponent had trotted out the C-K four rounds earlier...
  
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Bibs
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #6 - 05/30/16 at 23:32:29
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I would not suggest pre-arranged. As much because one could never know as anything else. Being a rational sort, I would only ever wish something to be provable.

But, like CbT above, I noted the petering out effect. It leapt out at me. But, y'know, whatever. If locals there are happy, fine, I guess.

Incidentally, while many can be suspected, I only know directly of one deliberate pre-arranged draw.
Well-known author and IM playing capable junior. IM tells junior the page number of a Caro-Kann book, the game reference, to get a seemingly complex draw. Repetition or perpetual, I forget which, but I guess I could look it up.
Junior looks it up, and it duly gets played. Neither bother to act very well though, on the top boards, visible to the crowd. @Plymouth, 1992 iirc.
I know because the junior, a friend and age group peer, told me.
That to me just seems like it is wholly taking the p*** out of those watching.

**Curious, I did look it up.
No repetition or perpetual, just quickly moved to a symmetrical structure. Still very early to agree a draw, but it was agreed. Well, saved energy, and I guess people could go off and look at some ships there or something.**


  
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Keano
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #5 - 05/30/16 at 17:21:09
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I hadn't noticed any whiff of pre-arranged draws tbh - will have a closer look but I didn't notice anything strange so far, although granted that could just be my ignorance.
  
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #4 - 05/30/16 at 14:10:47
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I don't understand the allegation, which seems to contradict itself. If the draws are prearranged by policy among players of the same nationality, it is exactly like Curacao. If they are not, the draws are not guaranteed.
  
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #3 - 05/30/16 at 10:37:43
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Hello.

GabrielGale wrote on 05/30/16 at 09:35:34:
But surely there is a whiff of "unsporting-like" behaviour? After all what is the point of a tournament where there are going to be a guaranteed 6 drawn games.

The draws are not guaranteed from the outset. The Azeris just seem to prefer a draw to playing on whenever they reach clearly equal positions, which has happened so far in all three games.

Have a nice day.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #2 - 05/30/16 at 09:55:23
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In answer:
1) it appears disrespectful to the memory of Gashimov
2) it's taking the p*** out of the sponsors
and
3) it doesn't look like Radjabov can be at all bothered to play chess any more
  
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GabrielGale
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Re: Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
Reply #1 - 05/30/16 at 09:35:34
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Without trying to hijack the thread, but was about to start a thread on this tournament. Wanted to pose the following question for ChessPubbers to digest and ruminate:
"What is your opinion of a tournament where 4 of the players are from the same country and they are all drawing their games with each other?"
I am not suggesting any blatant unethical behaviour such as match fixing (nothing like Bobby Fischer's allegations of the Curacao tournament).
But surely there is a whiff of "unsporting-like" behaviour? After all what is the point of a tournament where there are going to be a guaranteed 6 drawn games.
  

http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
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Keano
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Shamkir Gashimov Memorial
05/29/16 at 14:57:32
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Some great commentary and post match interviews by Ljubojevic. Forgot what a great player he was. He can see the key of a position so quick it is truly amazing.
  
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