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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Spanish 5.d4 (Read 5113 times)
barnaby
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #12 - 08/28/16 at 02:18:08
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I hear ya but I found that in this line Black already has a pawn on e5 and often gets to play f5 and if White neglects to surrender the center, the center can transform into a similar KID structure with ps on e5 and f4 and all the resulting fun that can be had from there, if one is inclined to be aggro, which one need be to be if thinking of attempt of playing into a Riga from the 5. d4 lines in the first place.

No?

Smiley  Cool
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #11 - 08/17/16 at 22:00:06
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I'd certainly agree there's a structural relationship in some cases, but I have trouble thinking of this reaching what I would think of as a KID-like structure.
  
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barnaby
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #10 - 08/17/16 at 20:21:24
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Spanish pawn structures and KIDs are cousins, sometimes even they look alike as much as Patty and Cathy Lane.

And just like the KID, the pawn structure confuses the bejeebies out of an engine which often likes to argue that white is winning when in reality Black is often very dynamically equal or able to make serious counter threats that give them the winning chances.

in this line with Qe2 Black often essays an early f5 and often gets to push the other kingside pawns and create the same pawn wedge on the kingside darksquares that is seen inn the mar del plata and is used to attack the white king

have you played it much and found it otherwise so with the pawn structure?
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #9 - 08/17/16 at 18:55:03
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Hmm, not sure what the bit about KID-like structures could be referring to ...
  
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barnaby
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #8 - 08/17/16 at 17:45:27
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kylemeister wrote on 08/16/16 at 23:08:02:
The move I recalled after 5...Nxe4 is 6. Qe2, which in ECO was thought to be slightly better for White.



There has been a couple of improvements in that line for black  ... from engines of course. ... its not so convincing for white ... the 'theoretical" advantage just keeps getting smaller and smaller until it disappears entirely ... like a KID ... hahahaha which makes sense cause we end it in similar pawn structures.

  Black gets real good counter play in positions that are very un lopez like.

Black can hold these lines easily.  Equality on most of them.
  
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barnaby
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #7 - 08/17/16 at 17:35:06
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The "Riga" ending is +/= but I have held it otb against 2400's and have held it online in cc where people were using engines against it.  Lots of errors in the original analysis and some previous thread here on Cpub go into some finer details

like all +/= it means that White gets to ask the questions and nothing more than that.

Caveat: I am looking at this from a purely otb pragmatic point as the op was talking about punting things in blitz games and what not.... no doubt none of this is as viable in CC chess or in a match between titanthropes rated 2700+

Its super fun and messy and a good way to randomize a position against an opponent that has already tried to spring their own little surprise with 5. d4  .. not for the button down types

  
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #6 - 08/17/16 at 00:36:55
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kylemeister wrote on 08/16/16 at 23:08:02:
The move I recalled after 5...Nxe4 is 6. Qe2, which in ECO was thought to be slightly better for White.


There's also a visually stunning engine idea which runs

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. d4 b5 6. Bb3 Nxd4 7. Nxd4 c5

The point being to regain the piece in "Noah's Ark" style with .. c4 .

I wouldn't be sure it's particularly good although engines are usually  confident it's only marginally better for White.

Isn't the "Riga" ending also regarded as better for White?
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #5 - 08/16/16 at 23:08:02
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The move I recalled after 5...Nxe4 is 6. Qe2, which in ECO was thought to be slightly better for White.
  
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barnaby
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #4 - 08/16/16 at 22:35:15
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True but what does White play after 5. ...  Nxe4 ... ?

  I keep seeing 0-0 in that position all my life and then Black plays exd and then we have Riga.

I am not arguing that 5 ... Ne4 is best.. ..only that it does make it hard for white to avoid Riga unless they want to accept inferior and uninspired lines



  
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kylemeister
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #3 - 08/16/16 at 21:30:03
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barnaby wrote on 08/16/16 at 21:20:25:
Perfect chance to transpose to a RIGA because these people punting early d4 will have no clue how to handle it.


Well, I don't know what the basis for that is, but also White doesn't have to allow such a transposition.
  
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barnaby
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #2 - 08/16/16 at 21:20:25
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Perfect chance to transpose to a RIGA because these people punting early d4 will have no clue how to handle it.
  
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Re: Spanish 5.d4
Reply #1 - 08/16/16 at 20:12:11
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This is probably not what you are looking for but Ntirlis covered this recently in his book "Playing 1.e4.e5" from Black´s point of view. Not long ago I won an otb game with Black following his recommendations.

But in the book he also mentioned a series authored by Krasenkow in Chessbase Magazine offering a White repertoire.
  
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grandpatzer
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Spanish 5.d4
08/16/16 at 17:25:19
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I remember the book published by The Chess Player in 1979, Spanish 5 d4 by Thomas... this was a long time ago. Although objectively it's nothing special if Black defends well, I think 5.d4 is a good weapon, especially for blitz and rapid chess. So my question is:

Is there, in printed form, (book or article) a recent and detailed coverage of this line?  Shocked
« Last Edit: 08/16/16 at 19:19:02 by grandpatzer »  
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