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ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Daring Defences to 1. d4 › Dutch › Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6

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Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 (Read 5957 times)

fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 Reply #8 - 08/28/16 at 21:45:44	Post Tools	Print Post
	IIRC, isn't also an early g4 pretty tough for Black to face as well (instead of e4)? At least it won't be the kind of Stonewall Black intended to play!


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ReneDescartes God Member Offline Qu'est-ce donc que je suis? Une chose qui pense. Posts: 1236 Joined: 05/17/10 Gender:	Re: Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 Reply #7 - 08/28/16 at 20:47:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Against 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 f5, I play the gambit 4.cxd4 exd4 5.e4!?. After 5...dxe4 6.Bc4, Black will not be able to castle for a long time, and White has numerous threats that emerge depending on what Black does...casting and playing f3 to play down the f-file at the stranded king; sinking a knight into f4 and ganging up on the light squares d5 and e6, etc. Silman and Christiansen mentioned it as a possibility in their old Dutch book and I've worked it into a system. Of course, Black is slightly better with best play, sort of the way White is against From's Gambit in the Bird, but it's extremely uncomfortable for the type of player that goes for this "instant Stonewall," as it just torches Black's king safety.
	« Last Edit: 08/29/16 at 01:03:01 by ReneDescartes »

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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4904 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 Reply #6 - 08/28/16 at 15:40:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	RdC wrote on 08/28/16 at 08:35:19: The Stonewall that can arise from the "Triangle" system may have its merits. That goes 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c6 . Now if White anticipates a Slav with 4. e3, Black can respond with 4. .. f5. However White can follow suit and play 5. f4 himself. Yes, the Counter-Stonewall as I recall it being called, once played in a Candidates game Karpov-Spassky.


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RdC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 868 Joined: 05/17/08	Re: Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 Reply #5 - 08/28/16 at 08:35:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	The Stonewall that can arise from the "Triangle" system may have its merits. That goes 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c6 . Now if White anticipates a Slav with 4. e3, Black can respond with 4. .. f5. However White can follow suit and play 5. f4 himself.


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JEH God Member Offline "Football is like Chess, only without the dice." Posts: 1456 Location: Reading Joined: 09/22/05 Gender:	Re: Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 Reply #4 - 08/27/16 at 11:44:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	The Stonewall dutch was one of my Black openings from my teens. I used it in combination with the French 1. d4 e6, playing the Maginot line repertoire of Stonewall+Fort Knox. Did well with it I remember wondering back than about reaching it via a QGD 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 f5 as I dabbled with the Orthodox QGD too. I gave up the Stonewall when all I could see was Black Square weakenesses and nothing to compensate, which sadly meant I dropped the lovely French too

	Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4904 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 Reply #3 - 08/26/16 at 23:59:44	Post Tools	Print Post
	I can't help it; that way of playing still reminds me first of all of Schlechter-John ("Web of Black Squares" in Chernev's most instructive games book)


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JEH God Member Offline "Football is like Chess, only without the dice." Posts: 1456 Location: Reading Joined: 09/22/05 Gender:	Re: Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 Reply #2 - 08/26/16 at 15:57:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	TCH wrote on 08/26/16 at 14:38:46: Nevermind. Apparently it turns into a QGD and I was able to find some stuff out about why that's not great for black. Could you share?

	Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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TCH YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 18 Joined: 08/13/13	Re: Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 Reply #1 - 08/26/16 at 14:38:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	Nevermind. Apparently it turns into a QGD and I was able to find some stuff out about why that's not great for black.


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TCH YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 18 Joined: 08/13/13	Question about Stonewall move-order 1...e6 08/26/16 at 13:53:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hi, guys, can you please help me understand why 1. d4 e6 2. c4 f5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 d5 heading for a stonewall is bad? I've looked in some books I have and not one of them mentions this. It's so commonly ignored I feel there is something obvious that I'm missing. Maybe this structure with white's bishop able to get outside the pawn chain is simply unsound? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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