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Normal Topic Why 1.c4 g6? (Read 4373 times)
mn
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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #9 - 09/26/17 at 11:23:28
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JEH wrote on 09/25/17 at 19:24:20:
"Over the past few years, I have come to appreciate that 1. c4 is very well met by 1. ...g6! if you hope to reach the Grunfeld.

The idea is this: Black meets Nc3 by ...c5, e4 by ...e5, d4 by ...Nf6..." - The Kaufman Repertoire for Black and White.

He then goes on to expand on this further.

I also love cheese, and I am also currently eating mature Cheddar.


This is true, but Kaufman (iirc) recommends 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 c4 g6, while Svidler goes for 2...c5, which probably allows a transposition to some of the English lines Kaufman wants to avoid.

  
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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #8 - 09/26/17 at 07:42:24
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 09/25/17 at 19:46:09:
1.c4 g6 2.Nc3 c5 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nc6

In addition: 6.Nc2 Bxc3+ does very, very well for Black, while 6.Nc2 d6 7.e4 Nh6 is a transposition to the Accelerated Dragon that is seen as favourable for Black.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 09/25/17 at 19:46:09:
What does he recommend after 1.c4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.g3 ?

Doesn't 3.d4 avoid the Grünfeld?
  

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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #7 - 09/25/17 at 20:01:01
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JEH wrote on 09/25/17 at 19:24:20:
The idea is this: Black meets Nc3 by ...c5, e4 by ...e5, d4 by ...Nf6...
So: 1.c4 g6 2.e4 e5 3.Nc3 c5 4.d4 Nf6 5.dxe5 +/- (just kidding).

What Kaufman said makes sense, but does it "avoid the proper English positions"? What does it avoid?
  
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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #6 - 09/25/17 at 19:46:09
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1.c4 g6! when ...c7-c5 is only played in response to Nb1-c3, ...Nf8-f6 is only played in response to d2-d4. The idea is two-fold:
  1. head for a KID while avoiding the English, Botvinnik with black already committed to an early ...Ng8-f6
  2. head for a symmetrical while avoiding the Accelerated Dragon, Maroczy Bind

1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 g6 3.e4 d6 4.g3 Bg7 5.Bg2 c5 6.Nge2
1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Bg7 5.e4

Not that those are so terrible for black, just not what black is looking for. Compare:

1.c4 g6 2.Nf3 Bg7 3.d4 Nf6
1.c4 g6 2.Nc3 c5 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nc6
1.c4 g6 2.Nc3 c5 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 Nc6 5.Nf3 e6 (or 5...e5)

But getting back to Svider...

cheese111 wrote on 09/14/16 at 04:37:25:
Given that he recommends 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c5 for Black as well, is there any reason not to simply play 1.c4 c5?
I don't see the reason. I am guessing he wants to play a combination of ...g7-g6, ...c7-c5, and ...d7-d5, while avoiding these:

1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 Nc6 (pure symmetrical)
1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Bg2 e6 (Keres-Parma)

But that first one is hard to avoid with 1...g6. What does he recommend after 1.c4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.g3 ?
  
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JEH
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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #5 - 09/25/17 at 19:24:20
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"Over the past few years, I have come to appreciate that 1. c4 is very well met by 1. ...g6! if you hope to reach the Grunfeld.

The idea is this: Black meets Nc3 by ...c5, e4 by ...e5, d4 by ...Nf6..." - The Kaufman Repertoire for Black and White.

He then goes on to expand on this further.

I also love cheese, and I am also currently eating mature Cheddar.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #4 - 09/25/17 at 18:21:53
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More chances for a Grunfeld?
  
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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #3 - 09/21/16 at 14:26:35
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Bibs wrote on 09/14/16 at 07:28:17:
1...c5 immediately rules out any Grunfeld transposition.

Actually the Symmetrical English still can transpose to the Grünfeld, but only if both players cooperate. An example is 1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.d4 g6 6.e4.
  

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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #2 - 09/14/16 at 16:07:25
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Sure, I guess I just thought that playing 1...c5 would cut down on theory, given that: 1) White can transpose to Symmetrical English type positions after 1...g6 anyway and 2) 1...c5 avoids the Anti-Grunfelds after 1. c4 g6 2.e4.
  
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Re: Why 1.c4 g6?
Reply #1 - 09/14/16 at 07:28:17
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I am not sure I understand your confusion.
1...c5 immediately rules out any Grunfeld transposition.
Is that what a typical Grunfeld player is looking for?

Noting your name, I feel compelled to note my fondness for cheese. Currently I am eating a mature cheddar.
  
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Why 1.c4 g6?
09/14/16 at 04:37:25
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In Svidler's chess24 series on the Grunfeld, he recommends 1...g6 against c4, claiming that it avoids the "proper English positions". Given that he recommends 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c5 for Black as well, is there any reason not to simply play 1.c4 c5? I'm not sure exactly what Black avoids with the 1.c4 g6 move order.
  
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