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Normal Topic Colle reputation (Read 2108 times)
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Re: Colle reputation
Reply #1 - 09/16/16 at 11:33:02
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dmp4373 wrote on 09/15/16 at 21:53:52:
[...]Lakdawala made this comment;
"I wrote in Kramnik: Move by Move: "The Colle and its cousin, the London System, tend to be scapegoated as second rate, milquetoast openings, when in reality, they are not... How is it, I ask, (quite rationally!) that an opening a move down (the semi-slav) is well respected and popular, while the other, the same position a move up (our beloved Colle) is often the object of contempt?"

Good question. My answer would be 1) the expectations for White are higher than for Black and 2) the critics probably go too far in their dismissal of the London and Colle.


I'm not at least an expert on the Colle and the Semi-Slav. But as far as I got it, they are structurally twins but on grounds of tempo quite different in nature.
The Colle can be named an attacking device revolving around the Greek Gift  - okay that is quite a bit short cut. But White all to often heads for a e3-e4-e5 or so.
If you look at the Semi-Slav the goal may be the same (e6-e5), dictated by pawn structure. But Black seldomly gets White to collapse like Black does quite often against the Colle. Even a further e5-e4 may backlash for Black on tempo basis.
The difference is clear: Black in the Semi Slav is move down.
Over all I feel that the Semi Slav statistics should be somehow below 50 percent (otherwise it would refute the theory of the advantage of the first move).
With White you surely wouldn't be content with less than 50 percent. So your only advantage lies in the extra move which should yield you the step to the 50-plus area.

But exacly that seems to be difficult. As far as I remember Bronznik in his "Colle-Koltanowsky-System" shows that Black has a good opportunity to delute White's attack.

Rudel with his Phoenix-Attack for White tries to emulate the Semi-Slav concept on the queen's side (d4xc5 Bxc5 b2-b4). But I havn't heard of it being too resourceful.

As White you can try to play against an isolated queen's pawn in black's. But it does not work too well. And you can play for a 3-2 pawn majority on the queen's side. But as far as I remember this in fact is quite sterile.

You can come back to the very question: What as White is your tempo-plus worth? As it is allways the question with colours reversed openings. I remember Watson dealing with that question in "Mastering the Chess Openings Vol. 4".
In my eyes it comes to this: For Black who is the tempo down it may be a value in itself not to have moved a certain piece yet (as White must have done in the colours reversed reversed, aka the original opening). So the minus tempo yields other opportunities. E.g. in the Semi-Slav White nearly allways plays Nb1-c3 at some stage. In the colours reversed Black uses the untouched status of the Nb8 quite oftenly for Nb8-d7, which may support the defensive of the king's side.


dmp4373 wrote on 09/15/16 at 21:53:52:
Now, I'm a club player so my perspective is that of an amateur. But in my decades of experience playing d-pawn special openings the danger for Black is real and it lies between moves 12-20. There is a vague, gray area just outside the opening where Black is in jeopardy of drifting into an inferior position, and often does.


Sadly that vague grey area is accessible for White too. I remember my misconceptions with the King's Indian Attack.It is quicksand: May be I simply use the extra tempo to overextend the attack on the opponent's king's side - when the king hasn't reached the area yet (due to minus tempo or willingly) and suddenly the opponent counterstrikes in what I thought to be my own attacking area...

  

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dmp4373
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Colle reputation
09/15/16 at 21:53:52
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I was reading the introduction to the book, Colle: Move by Move and the author, Cyrus Lakdawala made this comment;

"I wrote in Kramnik: Move by Move: "The Colle and its cousin, the London System, tend to be scapegoated as second rate, milquetoast openings, when in reality, they are not... How is it, I ask, (quite rationally!) that an opening a move down (the semi-slav) is well respected and popular, while the other, the same position a move up (our beloved Colle) is often the object of contempt?"

Good question. My answer would be 1) the expectations for White are higher than for Black and 2) the critics probably go too far in their dismissal of the London and Colle.

Now, I'm a club player so my perspective is that of an amateur. But in my decades of experience playing d-pawn special openings the danger for Black is real and it lies between moves 12-20. There is a vague, gray area just outside the opening where Black is in jeopardy of drifting into an inferior position, and often does.

There are a lot of opening purest on this site that insist any White opening that doesn't strive to achieve an objective positional advantage by force is inferior. I believe that's too narrow and dogmatic. And I am a big opponent of dogmatism in any human competition.
  
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