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Poll closed Question: Who will win the 2016 World Championship?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Magnus +3    
  7 (11.5%)
Sergey +3    
  0 (0.0%)
Magnus +1-3 (regulation)    
  44 (72.1%)
Sergey +1-3 (regulation)    
  4 (6.6%)
Tie. Magnus wins the tiebreak    
  4 (6.6%)
Tie. Sergey wins the tiebreak    
  2 (3.3%)
The match goes unfinished...    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 61
« Created by: Smyslov_Fan on: 11/08/16 at 08:35:54 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 2016 World Championship Match (Read 105674 times)
Dink Heckler
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #118 - 11/30/16 at 13:48:23
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I'm all for maintaining 140 years of tradition. However, the same tradition dictates that the players shall compete for a pittance or the opportunity to get their dacha upgraded. If they want to play for serious money, they need to bend to the prerogatives of the commercial age, and that means putting on a show.
  

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chk
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #117 - 11/30/16 at 11:40:35
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Scarblac wrote on 11/30/16 at 10:35:56:
...

The rapid tiebreak should be played before the match, then there's always one side that has to avoid the tie, and as a way to get things going I like rapid games better than the cautious draws in a sideline that seem traditional now...


This has been proposed in the past and somehow I had forgotten about it. It sounded reasonable back then and also now. It is a logical, good idea!
  

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Scarblac
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #116 - 11/30/16 at 10:39:16
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Also, the wider, non-chess playing public has no idea that some games are more boring than others, they care about the scoreline and that Carlsen walked away angrily from a press conference. The footage of that made world wide news, not any moves.

For the general public the actual chess content, the time control etc are completely irrelevant.
  
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Scarblac
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #115 - 11/30/16 at 10:35:56
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I don't see the bigger public interest for rapid chess. Lots of chess players follow classical supertournaments online, not as many follow the big rapid tournaments.

The rapid tiebreak should be played before the match, then there's always one side that has to avoid the tie, and as a way to get things going I like rapid games better than the cautious draws in a sideline that seem traditional now.

I thought this match was mostly fine, apart from Carlsen's disappointing white repertoire.
  
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IsaVulpes
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #114 - 11/30/16 at 08:20:15
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Stigma wrote on 11/30/16 at 00:21:27:
It would be ironic if the chess world conservatively clings to the classical match format even if public and commercial interest in it dwindles away.

Does it?

From what I'm seeing, the Chess WCh is the one(!) thing that still attracts the public about chess - it lands on the front page of various newspapers etc, while the rest of the year every year chess just "doesn't exist".

You're planning to throw away 140 years of history and the most prestigious title in the chess world, to kill off the one thing that the public cares about at all in chess, due to waning public interest. I don't feel like that'd go over too well?

IF there is a problem, then IMO not with the match format, but with classical time controls as a whole - which isn't really a new statement, and might very well be true!
.. But I believe there are many better ways of accomodating that than turning the WCh into a WorldCup-type diceroll.
  
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Stigma
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #113 - 11/30/16 at 00:21:27
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IM Atle Grønn speculates that Magnus may have had a hidden agenda: To demonstrate that the classical, long time control world championship match is out of date and thus force changes to promote more exciting chess:

https://www.nrk.no/sport/mener-carlsen-tar-_en-northug__-_-vil-endre-sjakksporte...

I doubt this personally; he could just have been too tired to take a lot of risk in game 12. But Magnus is on record wanting a tournament format instead, and I don't think this debate is going away. It would be ironic if the chess world conservatively clings to the classical match format even if public and commercial interest in it dwindles away.

I don't see why a suitable tournament can't be used to crown the champion: Lots of sports do it that way and live just fine with the increased randomness it leads to. The candidates' tournaments are already the chess world's most exciting product.

Having said that, this match has had its share of interesting and nerve-wracking games; more than I expected from such solid and defensively skilled players. The players' individual style really matters.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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barnaby
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #112 - 11/29/16 at 22:13:39
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ReneDescartes wrote on 11/29/16 at 19:29:21:
I disagree. I regard the outcome of Gelfand-Anand and Kramnik-Topalov as legitimate. I would greatly prefer a 24-game match with the champion retaining the title, or some kind of sudden-death classical continuation, but the rapid games are at least chess.

The sponsor and participants define the incentives. What the players do to try to win the match given those incentives is not a slap in the face to anyone, but what happens in an actual fight on this earth.

If Carlsen wins, he will have done what all the champions who have ever successfully defended their titles--Steinitz, Lasker, Petrosian, Kasparov, Karpov, Kramnik, and Anand--did before him in their careers: come from behind to win a grueling, prolonged fight.


Nice spin!

There was nothing grueling about that 12th game and there should have been.

~ 24 games.  Winner takes the entire purse, Champion keeps the crown on a tie.

If no one wants to step up to challenge, for lack of incentive for losing, then that alone speaks volumes to how little people need a chess champion anyway.




  
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Keano
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #111 - 11/29/16 at 21:22:43
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Not bothered with it. For me its irrelevant and I wont even be watching.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #110 - 11/29/16 at 19:29:21
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I disagree. I regard the outcome of Gelfand-Anand and Kramnik-Topalov as legitimate. I would greatly prefer a 24-game match with the champion retaining the title, or some kind of sudden-death classical continuation, but the rapid games are at least chess.

The sponsor and participants define the incentives. What the players do to try to win the match given those incentives is not a slap in the face to anyone, but what happens in an actual fight on this earth.

If Carlsen wins, he will have done what all the champions who have ever successfully defended their titles--Steinitz, Lasker, Petrosian, Kasparov, Karpov, Kramnik, and Anand--did before him in their careers: come from behind to win a grueling, prolonged fight.
  
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barnaby
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #109 - 11/29/16 at 17:28:12
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LeeRoth wrote on 11/28/16 at 22:34:53:
barnaby wrote on 11/27/16 at 18:36:00:
Bad scheduling to have this last game fall on a Monday.

Another in a series of poor marketing choices made by the group running this clown show.



So true, but, as chess fans, I think we need to be rooting for Agon to succeed.  If Agon drops out because it can't make a profit off the world championship, where are we going to find an organizer/sponsor for the next one?  Huh    


Not only did I root for their success I also paid the fee to watch the games even though I ended up watching Svidler on Chess24 instead.

I have done what I could to support chess for 40+ years including enticing all of my kids to play at high levels.

Sadly, there is not much to support anymore.

The entire format of the championship is flawed.  By setting it up to have the shorter games it means there really is no reason to have the longer games anymore.  They have become fully moot.  No new ideas shown, no novelties. 

The players (like Gelfand-Anand) wait until the short time controls to try to exploit any information gap and why not?  Doing otherwise is strategically unsound.

So, for me its no longer chess so much as who gets the other player in one short time control game into one unknown position and exploits the fact that they have not yet found this line on their own engine.  Greg Shahade should feel very happy at this! (and maybe he is right).

It's more like a detective competition at this point than a chess match and as such no Chess site should be foolish enough to put any money into this.

" I think what we got on our hands is a dead shark."  ~ Alvy Singer

  
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Scarblac
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #108 - 11/29/16 at 15:40:55
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LeeRoth wrote on 11/28/16 at 22:34:53:
If Agon drops out because it can't make a profit off the world championship, where are we going to find an organizer/sponsor for the next one?  Huh    


I feel that the major chess websites (e.g. Chess24, Chess.com, others) should organize it together.
  
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Dink Heckler
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #107 - 11/29/16 at 14:40:41
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LeeRoth wrote on 11/28/16 at 22:34:53:
barnaby wrote on 11/27/16 at 18:36:00:
Bad scheduling to have this last game fall on a Monday.

Another in a series of poor marketing choices made by the group running this clown show.



So true, but, as chess fans, I think we need to be rooting for Agon to succeed.  If Agon drops out because it can't make a profit off the world championship, where are we going to find an organizer/sponsor for the next one?  Huh    


If the players aren't prepared to fight, the sponsor won't succeed; it's that simple. Serving up games like game 12 is a slap in the face of any sponsor. If the players aren't making the $$ they think they deserve, they should look at themselves first.
  

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Keano
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #106 - 11/29/16 at 12:40:18
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complete disgrace that was.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #105 - 11/28/16 at 22:34:53
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barnaby wrote on 11/27/16 at 18:36:00:
Bad scheduling to have this last game fall on a Monday.

Another in a series of poor marketing choices made by the group running this clown show.



So true, but, as chess fans, I think we need to be rooting for Agon to succeed.  If Agon drops out because it can't make a profit off the world championship, where are we going to find an organizer/sponsor for the next one?  Huh    
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: 2016 World Championship Match
Reply #104 - 11/28/16 at 20:24:51
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It probably makes sense from a match standpoint; Magnus outrates Karjakin by more points in Rapid and Blitz than he does in Classical time controls.  Also, there's greater margin for error on his side in the 4-game Rapid match, whereas pressing too hard here could cost the entire match. 

Still, bit of a disappointment.
  
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