rutube David Navara(2707) vs Yifan Hou(2595) | Event
5 jul 2024 — ... David Navara(2707) vs Yifan Hou(2595) | Event: Navara - Hou Yifan | 2013.06.12» на канале «Искренняя радость» в хорошем качестве и бесплатно ...
01:15  2013.06.12

Using ChessPublishing's newly introduced position search feature, I've found that Max Illingworth (in his September 2017 update to the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 section) covered the line with 12.Nb5 in his annotations to Mchedlishvili-Nguyen, WCh Blitz Doha 2016. Referring to the possible 12.Nb5 in Navara-Hou, he says that "both players missed a tactical detail." He goes on to give the line ending in 16.Nd2, evaluating it as ⩲ and commenting "White's initiative is more important than losing the right to castle". 

Getting back to Justinhorton's question, someone did indeed spot that tactical nuance involving 12.Nb5. For some reason, my ChessBase search for the relevant position in database of games from the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 section failed to find Mchedlishvili-Nguyen. I'll have to do some checking to see what's going on.

Nernstian59 wrote on 12/31/21 at 02:55:39:


Somebody else must have spotted this by now, but I happened to be looking at Pert's book this afternoon and both he and Cornette give the game Navara v Hou, second match game, Prague 2013, which continued 6. e3 Ne7 7. Qb3 Bd6 8. Bxd6 Qxd6 9. Bd3 b6 10. Nf3 Ba6 11. Bxa6 Nxa6 12. O-O O-O 13. Rac1 Nc7 14 Rfe1 Ne6 which both authors mark as equal.

This is a plausible view, but my computers think that 12. Nb5! gives close to a winning advantage for White, e.g. 12...cxb5 13. Qxb5+ Nc6 14. Qxa6 Qb4+ 15. Ke2 Qxb2+ 16. Nd2.

Are they missing something? Am I?

(Cornette page 270, Pert page 357.)

The line is 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. g3 c6 5. Bg2 Bd6 6. O-O Nbd7 7. Nc3 O-O 8. Nd2! and e2-e4 comes (various move orders are possible).  The loose bishop on d6 gives White a tempo back when Black captures on e4 and White takes with his knight on d2.

Nernstian59 wrote on 12/31/21 at 02:55:39:


Thanks for the response.

We seem to have a thicket of variations, with options at every turn. For example in your sequence there are the following branch points: 5...c5, or 6...Bf5, or 7h4. Earlier yet 5a3, or 4a3, or 4e3. I think Black is challenged, but seems to hang in there.

This provides an alternative to pairing the Ragozin/Vienna with the Nimzo-Indian and English, or pairing the Ragozin/Vienna with the Tartakover and QGD exchange variation, etc. Pick your poison!

Hans Berliner addressed 1d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Bb4 a long time ago in "My System." As a matter of historical interest, I would be curious to know his answer, if anyone has that.

After 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bf4, Pert says that both Kornev and Watson continue with 5...Ne7. Pert considers 5...c6 more exact and he provides analysis. 

GM Max Illingworth, ChessPublishing, suggests 5...c5. instead. After 5...c5 6. dxc5 Nf6 7. e3 O-O 8. Bd3 Bxc5, he notes that we have transposed to a position that can be reached from the Alatortsev (1d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Be7) variation. After 9. Nge2 Nc6 10. O-O both 10...d4 and 10...Bg4 are interesting.

Does anyone know what continuation(s) Matthieu Cornette analyzes in his book "The Complete Ragozin"?

I addressed one move order that could lead to the famous Botvinnik-Capablanca game. I missed the move order of the query. Try again:

After 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 Nf6 5. a3 Bc3 6. bc3, Pert diverges with 6...c6. To my eyes 6...c6 appears incredibly passive. Yet fireworks can soon erupt.

CanadianClub wrote on 08/13/17 at 22:05:23:


I have not been able to do this using an ebook I purchased from Forward Chess.

Playing the Ragozin by Richard Pert, The Complete Ragozin by Matthieu Cornette, and The Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna by Jacek Ilczuk and Krzystof Panczyk cover related lines.

How to distinguish between the Vienna and the Ragozin? I think it is in black's choice after the moves: 1d4 Nf6 2c4 e6 3Nf3 d5 4Nc3 Bb4 5Bg5. The Vienna variation is reached after 5...dxc, which opens the position. The Ragozin variation continues with 5...h6, which keeps the position closed.

I think Pert's book is misnamed because when he comes to the aforementioned position, he chooses 5...dxc. He covers it in chapters 4 through 7. What are ostensibly two books on the Ragozin and one the Vienna, are really one book on the Ragozin and two books on the Vienna.

The two more recent books, by Pert and Cornette, are repertoire books. They give, more or less, complete repertoire's for black. The book by Ilczuk and Panczyk, covers all lines in the Vienna, as defined above.

So while Pert gives his lines in the Vienna and against white's anti-Vienna deviations, Ilczuk and Panczyk cover all lines of the Vienna, leaving anti-Vienna lines to others. Cornette's works is like Pert's, but he ignores the Vienna and covers the Ragozin instead.

Repertoire books attempt to give one side, black or white, all the lines they need to know in one book. A book covering all aspects of a single opening may be more suitable for both white and black players, and for those who want to consider lines not chosen by the author of a repertoire book.

Both the Vienna and Ragozin pair well with the Nimzo-Indian. Add the Mikenas line against the English for a thematic repertoire for black.

MartinC wrote on 11/24/16 at 16:18:26:


Digging around I think I found an obscure line that is not in Pert and looks good for White. What think ye, folks more clever than I?

3...Bb4 4 Bf4 Nf6 5 Qa4+ Nc6 6 e3 0-0 7 Nf3

Fllg wrote on 02/05/18 at 05:30:13:


I've played 1. ..b6 from time to time with the idea of entering Hedgehog lines. 1. .. Nf6 and 2. .. b6 is also possible but has a greater chance of entering normal Queens Indian variations. Delaying .. Nf6 has the possible advantage in flexibility in being still able to adopt Dutch or Hippo structures, depending on White's response. 

I did recently reach a position I had never seen before at move 2. The game started 1. c4 b6 2. b4 . 

Fllg wrote on 02/05/18 at 05:30:13:


I think when we play our main weapon against 1.d4 vesus 1.Nf3 / 1.c4 we are entering in HIS territory. 1.Nf3, for example, works very well against Queens Gambit lines, against QGA lines, against Dutch sometimes, there are lots of interesting anti-Grunfelds, etc...

My advice is to give to 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 the credit they deserve as a primary main lines openings and work a little against them. For example, study some 1.c4 e5 or 1.Nf3 c5 or whatever suits your style and options against 1.d4. But as a 1.Nf3 player myself I am always happy to see QGA lines against my non-d4 structures.

The only difference, I think, is the Kings Indian, that works pretty well against every non-1.e4 opening by White.

I am not really a Ragozin player, but I have this book. How does those that have the book find the quirky yet interesting 5...Ad6 line in the Catalan?

Somehow I missed or am book-blind to Pert's recommendation for Black after: 

1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 Nf6 4 Nc3 Bb4 5 Bg5 dxc4 6 Qa4+

I have tried to work with what he said re 5 Qa4+ but the center formation is altered enough with the pawn capture that I need some help.

Thanks.

Was there a way to send Errors to QC somewhere? 

On pg.101, Pert states that Gustafsson "only considers 13.Bc4:" in the line 5.Bg5 dc4: 6.e4 c5 7.dc5: Qd1:+ 8.Rd1: Nbd7 (not Pert's recommendation) 9.Bd2 Bc3: 10.Bc3: Ne4: 11.Bg7: Rg8 12.Bd4 Ndc5: 13.Ne5(!), but Gustafsson doesn't get there at all, playing 12. ..Nec5: instead - after which indeed 13.Bc4: looks like the only sensible move

BobbyDigital80 wrote on 08/22/17 at 22:03:00:


His main line runs 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.e3 0-0 6.Bd3 dxc4!? 7.Bxc4 c5 8.0-0 Nc6 9.a3 Ba5!? It's an interesting line that I hadn't actually considered before reading his book.

For what it's worth, Pert analyzes 6...b6 7.0-0 Ba6!?, and Roiz analyzes the Karpov System in his recent book on the Nimzo. There are so many good systems for black in the 4.e3 Nimzo that it's really a matter of taste.

By the way, if anybody can show me how to embed .PGNs that would be a huge help to me.

The authors recommend very different lines in some cases. For example, after 5.Bg5 Pert transposes to the Vienna with 5...dxc4, whereas Cornette analyzes the mainline with 5...h6. Also, after 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Bg5 Pert gives both the old line with 6...h6 7.Bh4 Nbd7 and ...g5 and the rare 6...Qd6!?, whereas Cornette recommends both Leko's 6...h6 7.Bh4 0-0!? and the even trendier 6...h6 7.Bh4 Bf5!? There are other differences as well, but those are the ones that stand out. 

It has to be said that Cornette's book is formatted just awfully and can be a real pain to read. Also, Pert includes decent lines against the Catalan and some other early deviations on the way to the Ragozin. On the other hand, Cornette's analysis is extremely thorough. 

In summary, Pert's book is the better produced of the two, although I personally like many of Cornette's recommendations more. Buy both

I find that it depends on who made the video series. Gustafsson's e-books tend to be lines only (no comments). I suppose it's so that he can use the same version for English and German e-books. There's also no real extra information compared to what he proposes in the videos. Other authors that I've seen (Svidler, Van Kampen) have additional information in the e-book, as well as instructional text.

The e-books are meant to be a bit more detailed, I think.

Hmm, I understand why they did that, but it's a bummer. Thanks for explaining!

So what do you view them on?  Do you need a special app?  Do you mean that they won't work with Chessbase?  That's a bummer, if so.

Out of curiosity, how do you rate the companion ebook that comes with Gustafsson's video series?  Is it a pdf, pgn, something else?  Some other video series from chess24 still don't have their promised ebooks, so I've been hesitant to buy anything from them, though the authors are really top-notch.

On 5 Nf3 (transposing to his chapter on 4 Nf3 Nf6 5 e3), Pert suggests 5...0-0 6 Bd3 b6 7 0-0 Ba6!?

On 5 Bd3, he gives 5...e5(!).

FreeRepublic wrote on 07/26/17 at 20:16:53:


Qd6 and h6 (two different chapters). Both Interesting. 

Qd6 has less theory, is easy to play and Black is absolutely OK, the only drawback (imho) is that White can simplify too much if he wants to. But it's a tricky and "different" line.

h6 is the main line for sure. Very unbalanced play, sharper then Qd6, with more theory to know and with complex positions to handle. More interesting, and the way to go if winning is a must.

Salut,

In this line, it used to be thought that 4.e3 was slightly more accurate than 4.a3, as it avoided some of Black's ..Ne7 ideas.  Today, I don't think there is a preference.

For example, the line 4.a3 Bxc3 5.bxc3 c5! 6.cxd5 exd5 7.e3 Nc6 8.Bd3 Nge7 9.Ne2 c4 10.Bc2 Bf5 was thought to be equal/good for Black.  But, as Schandorff points out,  9.Rb1 may have kept an edge for White in Grachev-Bakre, Biel 2011.    
      

This may not be the best version of the Marshall Gambit for White, and Black may be fine in theory, but if a Black player stumbles into this position never having played a Marshall Gambit in his life, he's likely to be destroyed.  The statistics are very good for White, which is all the more troubling considering all of those games came from the Triangle move order where the Black players, presumably, had prepared for a Marshall.  

Anyhow in the end no book is perfectly complete and this isn't his main recommendation anyway, but it's something that people should be aware of.

I finally got a copy of this book, and after spending a couple of days with it, I'm extremely happy; it's an excellent book!  

Pert does an admirable job of trying to make this a complete repertoire against 1.d4 d5 2.c4.  He gives 2...e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Bb4+ serious coverage, which is a line that I've discussed (briefly) here before and always been curious about.  His analysis goes much further than I've seen before.  

He makes a great case for 3.Nc3 Bb4, which I've always been skeptical of.  Many players will use the Ragozin as a companion for the Nimzo-Indian Defense and so won't need this portion of the book, but I'm impressed with it.  I'm not quite as high on the Black cause as Pert seems to be, but it's full of ideas to pose new or different problems to White, which is all you can really ask for.  For instance, 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 Nf6 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bc c6!? allows Black to still pursue a "Light Squared Strategy," answering a later cxd5 with ...cxd5 and not transposing to potentially problematic Nimzo lines.  It's interesting and stimulating, though I'm not sure that Black is truly equalizing here.  

White can use the move order 4.a3! (my annotation) 4...Bxc3+ 5.bc Nf6 6.cxd5 exd5 7.e3, which avoids those ...cxd5 ideas mentioned above.  Pert does a good job with his coverage here, and I come away thinking that Black's position is not as bad or lifeless as I've always thought.  However, Pert mentions in a page-long note that Black could try 5...c6!? to get back into the 6...c6!? lines:



Here he only analyzes 6.cxd5 cxd5 7.Bf4, saying that 6.e3 Nf6 transposes elsewhere in the book.  Unfortunately, 6.e4! is a position from the Marshall Gambit Declined that has scored very well for White, usually arising by the move order 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c6 4. e4 Bb4 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3.  It's playable for Black, but there's no coverage in Pert's book at all, and in my opinion, it's very dangerous to face over-the-board.  

Also in the main of the 4.a3! Bxc3+ 5.bc Nf6 6.cxd5 exd5 system, he follows (by transposition) Hillarp-Persson - Rozentalis, Gausdal 2006.



Pert ends his analysis after Black's 14th move saying that "the players reached a complex middlegame with mutual chances," and then "Black has stabilized his position and followed up by placing one knight on e7, supporting g6 and d5, and the other on d6."  He doesn't give the concluding moves of the game or analyze any alternatives, which I think is a real shame, since to my understanding this is a very critical test of Black's 3...Bb4 system!  I understand that no other games reached this position, but some guidance and independent analysis would really have helped.  To my mind, White has his two bishop, queen, and both rooks on their original squares, and despite it already being move 14, I wouldn't think that the opening is over.  

Pert does a great job in the anti-Catalan chapter from what I noticed; I haven't looked too closely there, though I play the Catalan!  A few lines look a little boringly equalish, but I suppose that's life. 

I don't have a ton of experience in the Ragozin proper; I've tried playing it over the years, but always struggled on the Black side of the Westphalia or Manhattan variations.  I didn't like the lines where Black played a quick ...h6 and ...g5, either, so eventually I just gave up.  Here I think Pert's book shines, though!  He offers 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Bg5 6.h6 intending a quick ...g5 and ...Nf6-e4 as his main system, but as noted he also gives 6...Qd6!? as an alternative, spending about twelve pages on it.  My initial conclusion is that this is fully playable for Black and that it solves my personal problem of what to play in this line; hurrah!

Again as already noted, he gives the Vienna transposition after 5.Bg5 dxc4, and now both the main line 6.e4 c5 and 6...b5!? for Black to choose from.  I'm glad to finally see some serious Vienna analysis in print for us non-professionals, and while my knowledge of these lines is very limited, my impression is that he does a fantastic job guiding us through the move orders and critical lines, suggesting some very interesting novelties along the way.  

In all, I personally find this a fantastic book!  The highest praise that I can give it is that it's finally convinced me to play the Ragozin, solving my own personal reasons for avoiding the opening in the past.  The crux of the matter, for me, is whether 6...Qd6!? and the Vienna hold up and suit me, but my initial impression is very positive.  I've played the Noteboom/Triangle and Semi-Slav in the past, so I'm familiar with similar positions, and I see many of the less critical lines as improved forms of the Noteboom or Semi-Slav.  I'll have to learn the Vienna variation now, but, I've been looking for a new defense to 1.d4 for years, and this seems to be it.  

In all, I haven't been happier with an opening book purchase in recent years, except perhaps with Lokander's book on the Open Games.  I just hope that there's still some surprise value left down here at the under-2400 level in the US!

TN wrote on 02/25/17 at 07:43:27:


Not sure, if I understand you correctly, but I'll give a quote from Cornette anyway (excerpt from his new Ragozin book):
Quote:


So, it seems Black doesn't have to bother with 4.Qc2 in this move order. Not sure about 4.f3, but I will have a look at Pert's book.

Right now it seems the 1.d4 d5 move order is a bit more practical, but I will try the other one for the richness of Nimzo anyway.

ErictheRed wrote on 02/17/17 at 19:14:48:


What do you mean?

If you play the Ragozin, why not transpose into one after 4 Nf3. I don't see 4...c5 as being that much better than 4...d5 that it's worth learning an extra branch that you don't strictly need.

Do most Nimzo/Ragozin players play 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nf3 d5? This transposes to a Ragozin and cuts down on the amount of theory to learn, but I was wondering if most Nimzo players play something different against 4.Nf3 in the Nimzo.

I have Alejandro Ramírez dVd,  and the most remarkable difference is in the 5.Bg5 line, going here to the Vienna. Anybody here DO that?  Has the Viena the massive amount of theory I think it has? Or maybe is not so dramatic as Black to be prepared in the main lines?

Thx

So is the Botvinnik-Capablanca 4 e3 Nf6 5 a3 thingy meant to be okay for Black now? Last I checked it still looked rather pleasant for White.

CanadianClub wrote on 11/24/16 at 10:40:00:

And here I was planning to play this 6...Qd6 for surprise value... good luck with that now. Thanks a lot, Quality Chess!

Hi guys, I am very excited with the new book on the Ragozin it's going to be on the market on 21th December. By Nicholas Pert for Quality Chess.

There is an excerpt available on their website, where we can find a list of the lines Mr. Pert analyzes/proposes in the book. For example, this rare line with Qd6 in the main main line (for me the 5.Bg5 is the main line).

Any comments about the book or about the Ragozin in general?

Salut,