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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The King's Gambit in 2016 (Read 6139 times)
Keano
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #14 - 09/15/21 at 16:50:07
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TopNotch wrote on 07/31/21 at 23:56:53:
Actually Nepo doesn't consider the Schallop Defence to be the most critical line for White to face but rather that honor goes to the Fischer 'Bust' Variation 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6. According to Nepo, Stockfish agrees with Fischer.  Smiley


I heard a quote from Wesley So that Fischer was the Stockfish of his generation, makes sense Smiley
  
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #13 - 08/08/21 at 20:33:41
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Fllg wrote on 08/08/21 at 06:21:41:
I don´t own Nepo´s course but chessable´s opening explorer reveals that he follows your line up to move 22 and then he seems to continue with 23.Kf3.

I have no idea how he evaluates the resulting position but perhaps the bishop pair and play against h7/f7 gives White enough compensation for the pawn and reasonable drawing chances.

Thanks for this (I hadn't realised there was a Chessable Opening Explorer Smiley ).
Looking at 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Nh5 again, instead of 5.d4, I'm tempted by Carlsen's 5.Qe2 Be7 6.d4 0–0 7.Nc3 d6 8.Bd2 Bg4 9.0–0–0 Nd7, but now 10.Ne4!? as suggested by Danny King here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpWCSu58xmU&t=409s. Maybe Black is objectively better, but White should have practical chances in a complicated middlegame.
  
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #12 - 08/08/21 at 06:21:41
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I don´t own Nepo´s course but chessable´s opening explorer reveals that he follows your line up to move 22 and then he seems to continue with 23.Kf3.

I have no idea how he evaluates the resulting position but perhaps the bishop pair and play against h7/f7 gives White enough compensation for the pawn and reasonable drawing chances.
  
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #11 - 08/07/21 at 20:30:43
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FreeRepublic wrote on 07/31/21 at 21:51:18:
Mathias Wahls claimed in 2020 that the Schallop is a refutation of the King's Gambit.
Quote:
It is clear from Nepomniachtchi's Chessable video that he covers the Schallop. I think that section might be critical for anyone playing the King's Gambit for white, or who wishes to play the Schallop variation as black.

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Nh5

I’m struggling to speculate on what Nepo might recommend against 5.d4 d5 6.c4 g5!

Wahls’ mainline (http://matthias-wahls.com/73-the-refutation-of-the-kings-gambit-part-4/) goes 7.g4 Ng7 8.Nc3 dxc4 9.Bxc4 Bxg4 10.h3 Bh5 11.h4 Nc6 12.Nd5 Be7 13.hxg5 Bg4

The best I (or rather the computer) can come up with here is 14.Bxf4 Qd7 15.Ne3 0–0–0 16.Nxg4 (an attempt to improve on Wahls’ 16.d5, when 16…Bc5!? may be even stronger than his 16…Nh5), but  16...Qxg4 17.Rh4 Qg2 18.Qe2 Qxe2+ 19.Kxe2 Nf5 20.Rg4 Ncxd4+ 21.Nxd4 Nxd4+ 22.Kf2 Ne6 23.Be3 looks like a nothing burger. Black brings a rook (or two) to the g-file.
  
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #10 - 08/01/21 at 00:19:41
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TopNotch wrote on 07/31/21 at 15:45:18:
I thought you King's Gambit fanatics would enjoy this: https://www.chessable.com/long-live-the-kings-gambit/course/82071/  Wink


It seems that Nepo is recommending the Knight’s Gambit and somewhat surprisingly against 3...g5 it’s the Kieseritzky 4 h4 g4 5 Ne5.

In the intro video, after 5...Nf6, instead of the traditional main lines of 6.Bc4 or 6.d4, Nepo suggests opting for the very old forcing line
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 and n6.Nxg4 Nxe4 7.d3 Ng3 8.Bxf4 Nxh1
(Here 8…Qe7+ is also quite critical, I’ve always thought.)
9.Qe2+ Qe7 10.Nf6+ Kd8 11.Bxc7+ Kxc7 12.Nd5+ Kd8 13.Nxe7 Bxe7,  which is at least as old as Baucher – Morphy, Paris 1858 and now Nepo suggests 14.Qf3, which is also the engine’s suggestion (Stockfish 14).

I wonder what Nepo will give against the 5...Qe7 line, mentioned by MNb, which so irritated Shaw, who said "it is ugly, clumsy and crude. And it equalises comfortably". Shaw conntinues with 6 d4 d6 7 Nxg4 Qxe4+ 8 Qe2 Qe7!, fighting for tempo, with approximate equality. That seems about right and I don't see how White can vary favourably. Of course, it's still a game; both sides have weakened kingsides; White has more of the centre but Black has a lead in development.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #9 - 07/31/21 at 23:56:53
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FreeRepublic wrote on 07/31/21 at 21:51:18:
GM Ian Nepomniachtchi is definitely a big gun and I would think this course would irresistible to anyone currently playing the King's Gambit.

I have John Shaw's 2013 tome on the King's Gambit. He had many strong recommendations in the lines that I reviewed.

Martin Lockander surprised me by advocating the Schallop variation, 1e4 e5 2f4 exf 3Nf3 Nf6, for black in 2015. Prior to that, I had never seen anyone recommend it. Mathias Wahls claimed in 2020 that the Schallop is a refutation of the King's Gambit. It should be noted that the Schallop can transpose to the modern after 4Nc3 d5 5exd.

A search of games after 1e4 e5 2f4 exf 3Nf3 Nf6 for the last 5 years show white scoring 50%. Restricting the search to players rated above 2400 and black does better.  Notable is Carlsen's loss to Ding in 2020. If play transposes to the modern, overall statistics for the last 5 years are still 50%, and again black does a little better among stronger players. A cautionary word about statistics. They tend to change with every sample, for example after every subsequent move, for different years, or different rating levels.

It is clear from Nepomniachtchi's Chessable video that he covers the Schallop. I think that section might be critical for anyone playing the King's Gambit for white, or who wishes to play the Schallop variation as black.

The ChessPublishing archives covers the King's gambit in several games, including games on the Schallop.

If "best play" is equal or unbalanced, I might be satisfied. My opponents seldom play at that level, nor do I. Perhaps more important are the results in reasonable sidelines. If you know theory a little better than your opponent, results will change yet again.

I think the main thing is to know how to make the most of your chances. It certainly helps if someone champions the opening.


Actually Nepo doesn't consider the Schallop Defence to be the most critical line for White to face but rather that honor goes to the Fischer 'Bust' Variation 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6. According to Nepo, Stockfish agrees with Fischer.  Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #8 - 07/31/21 at 21:51:18
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GM Ian Nepomniachtchi is definitely a big gun and I would think this course would irresistible to anyone currently playing the King's Gambit.

I have John Shaw's 2013 tome on the King's Gambit. He had many strong recommendations in the lines that I reviewed.

Martin Lockander surprised me by advocating the Schallop variation, 1e4 e5 2f4 exf 3Nf3 Nf6, for black in 2015. Prior to that, I had never seen anyone recommend it. Mathias Wahls claimed in 2020 that the Schallop is a refutation of the King's Gambit. It should be noted that the Schallop can transpose to the modern after 4Nc3 d5 5exd.

A search of games after 1e4 e5 2f4 exf 3Nf3 Nf6 for the last 5 years show white scoring 50%. Restricting the search to players rated above 2400 and black does better.  Notable is Carlsen's loss to Ding in 2020. If play transposes to the modern, overall statistics for the last 5 years are still 50%, and again black does a little better among stronger players. A cautionary word about statistics. They tend to change with every sample, for example after every subsequent move, for different years, or different rating levels.

It is clear from Nepomniachtchi's Chessable video that he covers the Schallop. I think that section might be critical for anyone playing the King's Gambit for white, or who wishes to play the Schallop variation as black.

The ChessPublishing archives covers the King's gambit in several games, including games on the Schallop.

If "best play" is equal or unbalanced, I might be satisfied. My opponents seldom play at that level, nor do I. Perhaps more important are the results in reasonable sidelines. If you know theory a little better than your opponent, results will change yet again.

I think the main thing is to know how to make the most of your chances. It certainly helps if someone champions the opening.
  
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #7 - 07/31/21 at 16:49:29
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Dunno. Spicing up lines like 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4

a) 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Qe7
b) 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.g3 d6 6.d4 d6 7.d5 Ne5
c) 3.Bc4 Nc6

looks like a thankless job to me. So last few years I've been more interested in its counterpart 1.d4 d4 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 5.e4 and related variations.
But yeah, I'd like to be proven wrong about the KG.

Also quotes like "Sweep 1...e5 with the King’s Gambit!" make me skeptical. This reminds me of "Stop playing for the endgame; start playing to end the game!" (Tim Sawyer in his utterly unreliable book on the BDG).

https://www.chessable.com/long-live-the-kings-gambit/course/82071/#positions
  

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TopNotch
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #6 - 07/31/21 at 15:45:18
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I thought you King's Gambit fanatics would enjoy this: https://www.chessable.com/long-live-the-kings-gambit/course/82071/ ; Wink
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Paddy
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #5 - 12/17/16 at 12:56:43
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GabrielGale wrote on 12/15/16 at 20:57:45:
@Paddy, proustiskeen,

the way to do it is to go to your browser and look for the source code, eg in Safari, it is under Develop tab, choose "show page source", which opens up a window with html code, scroll until you find the game, then it is just a matter highlight and copy and paste into your pgn file.
For the latter, I create a pgn file using, eg ChessX, then open the pgn file using TextEdit, paste the pgn game into pgn file in textEdit. Just make sure you copy over all the relevant pgn headers etc. For USCF website, you will need to clean up a bit of the text, eg the quote marks come in ASCII code. Just use find and replace within TextEdit.
Some websites do not give a pgn text in html which means the above method does not work.
Chess base's games are now very easy to download, 'cos they will give you the pgn text which you can cut and paste into your own pgn file.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need clarification.


Thanks! Probably the most convenient way for me is just to go to "show page source" (a great tip), from where I can copy the notation cleanly and paste it straight into a Chessbase "new game", followed by inputting the header manually.
  
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #4 - 12/15/16 at 20:57:45
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@Paddy, proustiskeen,

the way to do it is to go to your browser and look for the source code, eg in Safari, it is under Develop tab, choose "show page source", which opens up a window with html code, scroll until you find the game, then it is just a matter highlight and copy and paste into your pgn file.
For the latter, I create a pgn file using, eg ChessX, then open the pgn file using TextEdit, paste the pgn game into pgn file in textEdit. Just make sure you copy over all the relevant pgn headers etc. For USCF website, you will need to clean up a bit of the text, eg the quote marks come in ASCII code. Just use find and replace within TextEdit.
Some websites do not give a pgn text in html which means the above method does not work.
Chess base's games are now very easy to download, 'cos they will give you the pgn text which you can cut and paste into your own pgn file.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need clarification.
  

http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
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Paddy
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #3 - 12/15/16 at 15:32:48
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[quote author=11130E14121508120A04040F610 link=1481767987/2#2 date=1481815103]Paddy - were you able to download that game directly or did you have to input it yourself? If you were able to download directly, how did you do it?[/quote

I had to input it myself, which is tedious, of course. That website is rather "mean" in that respect.
  
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #2 - 12/15/16 at 15:18:23
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Paddy - were you able to download that game directly or did you have to input it yourself? If you were able to download directly, how did you do it?
  
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Re: The King's Gambit in 2016
Reply #1 - 12/15/16 at 09:56:13
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Not in numbers - 2015 and 2014 in my database have more than 36 games.
However in results yes - in those years White did worse.
  

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The King's Gambit in 2016
12/15/16 at 02:13:07
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I came across this very recent game at the US Federation website:

[Event "52nd American Open"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2016.11.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Gareyev, T."]
[Black "Khachiyan, M."]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C34"]
[PlyCount "85"]
[EventDate "2016.12.14"]
[SourceTitle "https://new.uschess.org"]

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Ne7 4. d4 d5 5. Nc3 dxe4 6. Nxe4 Nd5 7. Bd3 Be7 8. c4 Ne3 9. Bxe3 fxe3 10. Qe2 Bb4+ 11. Nc3 O-O 12. O-O c5 13. Nd5 Nc6 14. a3 Bd2 15. Nxd2 exd2 16. dxc5 Be6 17. Qxd2 b6 18. cxb6 Bxd5 19. cxd5 Qxb6+ 20. Qf2 Ne5 21. Qxb6 axb6 22. Rfd1 Rfd8 23. d6 Nxd3 24. Rxd3 Rac8 25. d7 Rc7 26. Rad1 Kf8 27. Rd6 Rb7 28. a4 Ke7 29. Kf2 Rdxd7 30. Rxd7+ Rxd7 31. Rxd7+ Kxd7 32. Ke3 Kd6 33. b4 Kd5 34. a5 bxa5 35. bxa5 Kc5 36. Ke4 Kb5 37. Ke5 Kxa5 38. Kd6 Kb4 39. Ke7 f5 40. Kf7 f4 41. Kxg7 h5 42. h4 Kc3 43. Kg6 1-0

and was about to post it here with the comment "here's a rare recent example of a strong player employing the King's Gambit" when I paused and decide to check my database of games played in 2016.

I was a little surprised to find 36 KG games played by players rated over 2400 FIDE, with White scoring about 74%. Admittedly a lot of these games were played at fast time limits, but even so...

I've not checked to see how this compares with previous years, but maybe we are seeing at least a modest revival?!
  

Gareyev_Khachiyan.pgn ( 0 KB | 208 Downloads )
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