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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid? (Read 5268 times)
Seeley
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #16 - 10/18/18 at 08:50:17
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Laramonet wrote on 10/17/18 at 20:55:36:
A teammate of mine insists that the idea for Black is to hold back the king's knight by playing c6, Bf5, e6 and Nd7. Is this feasible ?

Matthias Wahls advocated this idea for Black in his book 'Modernes Skandinavisch' in the 1990s, but this applied exclusively to the 3...Qa5 Scandinavian. I don't remember precisely the reasoning behind it, but I think the main point was that Black had more important things to do than developing the King's Knight, one of which was to play c6 early to allow the Queen to retreat to safety from its exposed position on a5. This is obviously not a consideration after 3...Qd8, so it's unclear what Black achieves by delaying ...Nf6 in the line under discussion. Is it possible your teammate is confusing the two variations? Even after 3...Qa5, in fact, Wahls himself subsequently wrote that there was a particular sequence of moves for White that posed a serious challenge to his 'Königsspringerzurückhaltungspolitik' ('policy of holding back the King's Knight'), as he called it, and he now recommended playing ...Nf6 before ...c6 in the main line.
  
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Laramonet
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #15 - 10/18/18 at 07:25:15
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Thanks Tony, I didn't believe it but our discussion involved six people, beer and no board !
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #14 - 10/18/18 at 01:52:51
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I don't think that's the idea at all...like 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd8 4.d4 c6 5.Nf3 Bf5, for instance? Just like in all the other Scandi lines, 6.Ne5! looks pretty annoying there, since 6...Nd7? 7.Nxf7! is gross, and 6...e6 7.g4! or 6...Nf6 7.Bc4 e6 8.g4!  are similar and also strong.
  
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Laramonet
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #13 - 10/17/18 at 20:55:36
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A teammate of mine insists that the idea for Black is to hold back the king's knight by playing c6, Bf5, e6 and Nd7. Is this feasible ?
  
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buddho
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #12 - 02/17/17 at 19:10:53
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kylemeister wrote on 02/15/17 at 21:20:25:
buddho wrote on 02/15/17 at 20:16:28:
How about something like

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. Nf3 e6 6. d4 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8.
Re1 c5 9. d5 b5 and if 10. Bxb5 exd5 with equality  Grin



Offhand I was inclined to prefer 8. Qe2.  Incidentally that was given by Fine in his 1940s opening book as better for White, citing a game Alekhine-Schlechter.


After 8.Qe2 we have


1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. Nf3 e6 6. d4 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8.
Qe2 a6 9. a4 b6 10. Bg5 Nc6!? (10... Bb7 11. Rad1 Nbd7 12. Rfe1 h6) 11. Bxf6 (
11. Rfd1 Nd5) 11... Bxf6 12. Rad1 Bb7 13. Ne4 Nb4 14. Ne5 Nd5

Still seems pretty "solid" as per the Op's question.



  
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kylemeister
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #11 - 02/15/17 at 21:20:25
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buddho wrote on 02/15/17 at 20:16:28:
How about something like

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. Nf3 e6 6. d4 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8.
Re1 c5 9. d5 b5 and if 10. Bxb5 exd5 with equality  Grin



Offhand I was inclined to prefer 8. Qe2.  Incidentally that was given by Fine in his 1940s opening book as better for White, citing a game Alekhine-Schlechter.
  
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buddho
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #10 - 02/15/17 at 20:16:28
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How about something like

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. Nf3 e6 6. d4 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8.
Re1 c5 9. d5 b5 and if 10. Bxb5 exd5 with equality  Grin

  
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mn
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #9 - 12/30/16 at 02:53:04
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I know it's hard to cover everything in an hour, but judging from the contents, it seems 4 d4 Nf6 5 Bc4 and 5 Bg5 are missing entirely...
  
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TD
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #8 - 12/29/16 at 16:13:25
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Keano wrote on 12/29/16 at 12:40:28:
Should we be surprised that White has various dangerous options after 3...Qd8?

Bring it on! Wink
  
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Keano
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #7 - 12/29/16 at 12:40:28
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Should we be surprised that White has various dangerous options after 3...Qd8?
  
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AlanG
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #6 - 12/28/16 at 18:34:23
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I guess Nc6 and Bg4 arguing that Black's a6 is more useful than White's a4.
  
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alyechin
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #5 - 12/28/16 at 17:51:27
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AlanG wrote on 12/28/16 at 16:45:51:
Maybe 5...a6 is possible now, intending b5 and Bb7.


After 6 a4 Black needs another setup
  
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AlanG
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #4 - 12/28/16 at 16:45:51
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Maybe 5...a6 is possible now, intending b5 and Bb7.
  
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alyechin
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #3 - 12/28/16 at 16:13:49
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alyechin wrote on 12/28/16 at 14:04:37:
IM Andrew Martin published a new 60-minutes-DVD about "The solid Scandinavian", suggesting 1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qd8 4 d4 Nf6 5 Nf3 Bg4, exchanging bishop against knight.

If White plays 1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qd8 4 Nf3...

4... Bg4? 5 Ne5 and Black is in all sorts of trouble.

If 4...Bg4 isn't possible, how develop the light squared bishop? If 4...Bf5 the bishop will be a target for a white pawn attack.

What can Black do? Play in Caro-Kann-style with 4...c6? In my opinion this is a very passive Caro-Kann. The real name of Martin's DVD should be: "The passive Scandinavian".


Surely it's White who's in all sorts of trouble after 5...Bxd1

You are right, because I missed one move:

1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qd8 4 Bc4 Nf6 5 Nf3 Bg4? 6 Ne5!
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: Is "The solid Scandinavian" really solid?
Reply #2 - 12/28/16 at 14:41:18
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If your idea is to get the Caro Kann structure and exchanging the bishop most of the time for a knight to get a solid and with not much theory but with a small advantage for White, there is the Fort Knox variation of the French.
  
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