Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4 (Read 13790 times)
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #24 - 02/02/17 at 06:44:20
Post Tools
alyechin wrote on 02/01/17 at 16:03:07:
I think i found a the solution of the 1...e6 move order Dutch against non fianchetto lines:



It keeps an eye on the e4 square and gives me the possibility to play later ...Ne4 and ...f5. This move (...Nf6 followed by Bb4)  may be the novelty of the year. I call it "The improved Dutch"!  Wink


A great improvement  Smiley How can this have gone under the radar for such a long time  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2004
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #23 - 02/01/17 at 20:51:23
Post Tools
Of course. Its such a stunningly original concept Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gut Gambit
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 47
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #22 - 02/01/17 at 19:04:18
Post Tools
Does this really even need a diagram...?

GG
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alyechin
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 120
Joined: 09/22/09
Gender: Male
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #21 - 02/01/17 at 16:03:07
Post Tools
I think i found a the solution of the 1...e6 move order Dutch against non fianchetto lines:



It keeps an eye on the e4 square and gives me the possibility to play later ...Ne4 and ...f5. This move (...Nf6 followed by Bb4)  may be the novelty of the year. I call it "The improved Dutch"!  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 979
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #20 - 01/31/17 at 17:49:22
Post Tools
gewgaw wrote on 01/30/17 at 22:43:44:
Eljanov's play against Magnus in Wijk aan Zee was very impressive and somewhat easy to understand. My question: where did Magnus go wrong?

Some analysis was posted on https://en.chessbase.com/post/2017-tata-rd12-pressure-last-round-2
My personal experience with this type of position is that you better don't play Bd7 exactly because of this Qb3 idea as played by Eljanov. I won a very nice game against a French FM with Bd7 but I realized that white was better in the opening. Now I prefer to play a setup with Nbd7 as advocated in the book https://www.amazon.com/Win-Stonewall-Dutch-Sverre-Johnsen/dp/1906454078.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
gewgaw
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 681
Location: europe
Joined: 09/09/04
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #19 - 01/30/17 at 22:43:44
Post Tools
Eljanov's play against Magnus in Wijk aan Zee was very impressive and somewhat easy to understand. My question: where did Magnus go wrong?
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10551
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #18 - 01/30/17 at 21:08:13
Post Tools
alyechin wrote on 01/30/17 at 17:26:05:
I don't like that White playing natural moves gets a good position, without knowing any theory.

Then the Dutch is not for you. This is not meant in a snarky way. Like Brabo already said it's typical for this opening that Black must play accurately, understand exactly what he/she's doing and be willing to play one or two unnatural moves the first 15 moves or so. But then the fun begins if things are going Black's way. For instance in one game I withdrew all my pieces to the backrank and then opened the position with e6-e5. My teammates were horrified, but that immediately disappeared when I had a crushing attack only three moves later! Afterwards I found how White could have defended and maintained equality, but my opponent obviously didn't find it.
But yeah, Black can never play on the automatic pilot. Almost every reasonable setup by White is potentially dangerous. To paraphrase Williams: "Black can never sit still". There are no easy solutions. With Kylemeister I strongly doubt if that Stonewall line is one.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4669
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #17 - 01/30/17 at 20:23:44
Post Tools
Offhand I would have thought that the main line would be for White not to be eager to exchange on d6, which goes back to Schlechter-John and such.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alyechin
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 120
Joined: 09/22/09
Gender: Male
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #16 - 01/30/17 at 20:07:25
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 01/30/17 at 19:55:43:
So what's the story according to Kritz regarding this kind of thing:  1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nc3 e6 4. Nf3 d5 5. Bf4?


His main line is:
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4669
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #15 - 01/30/17 at 19:55:43
Post Tools
So what's the story according to Kritz regarding this kind of thing:  1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nc3 e6 4. Nf3 d5 5. Bf4?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alyechin
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 120
Joined: 09/22/09
Gender: Male
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #14 - 01/30/17 at 19:29:48
Post Tools
In his 60 minutes video lectures Leonit Kritz recoments to play the Stonewall setup also against non fianchetto lines. Maybe this is the solution?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 979
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #13 - 01/30/17 at 18:06:12
Post Tools
alyechin wrote on 01/30/17 at 17:26:05:
I don't like that White playing natural moves gets a good position, without knowing any theory.

True and that is for sure one of the mainreasons why the Dutch will never be a mainstream opening.
I already pointed this out in my article http://chess-brabo.blogspot.be/2013/09/a-dutch-gambit-part-2.html. "In the Dutch there are many green moves."
Green moves are considered by openingbooks as fully playable.

I am now coaching a bunch of promising young players but I don't make any advertising for the Dutch despite I played it exclusively for 20 years. People often ask me why I don't play anything else but the Dutch has become for me like a child which you nurtured and have a strong emotional relation with.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
alyechin
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 120
Joined: 09/22/09
Gender: Male
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #12 - 01/30/17 at 17:26:05
Post Tools
I don't like that White playing natural moves gets a good position, without knowing any theory.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10551
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #11 - 01/30/17 at 16:36:53
Post Tools
alyechin wrote on 01/29/17 at 21:07:16:
5.Qb3 Qe7 6.Bg5 leads to a pleasant advantage for White according to Scharndorf.

Yeah, but you still got your move order wrong in your first post. Plus a pleasant advantage is not the same as refutation. Plus it's not hard to improve Black's play in Schandorff's main line. Plus he writes explicitly that he "would play 3.g3 myself" after 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5. Plus with both players having an ELO 2400+ Black actually has 51% after 5.Qb3 Qe7 (and even much better after 6.Bg5). So while this remains a respectable and rather unexplored way to play as White it's not exactly the most important line to investigate in the Dutch.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 979
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: Stonewall - A fighting repertoire against 1.d4
Reply #10 - 01/30/17 at 16:18:16
Post Tools
alyechin wrote on 01/30/17 at 15:06:31:
brabo wrote on 01/30/17 at 06:19:47:
Who is Scharndorf?
I know GM Lars Schandorff but he recommends something very different against the Dutch see my article http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.be/2013/03/lars-schandorff.html unless he changed recently his mind. 


Via 1. d4 e6 2. c4 f5 move order...

Weird as I can't find any game of Lars where he played that line.
Anyway I never met it in a rated game so I did not study this.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo