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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6 (Read 8780 times)
tp2205
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #10 - 09/18/17 at 12:55:39
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phonological_loop wrote on 09/18/17 at 06:21:58:
What is the best way to play for a win as white in this variation? 

I was preparing my French repertoire using a database today and this line seemed surprisingly resilient for black, with black scoring almost 50%. It also seems quite drawish. 

The following seems like the most challenging for white:
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 dxe4
5. Nxe4 Be7 6. Bxf6 gxf6 7. Nf3 f5.



One of the reasons why I play 4.e5 with White. 

Langrock in his book about the Rubinstein variation also seems to come to the conclusion that this type of pawn structure together with the unopposed black-squared bishop is nothing Black should be unhappy about (but usually Black has already managed to play c5 in these positions).

If this is correct then you should not make it easy for Black to play c5. So 8.Nc3 looks reasonable Both 8...c5 9.d5 and 8...0-0 9.Qe2 c5 10. O-O-O look a bit uncomfortable for Black. After 8. Ng3 I am not sure if c5 9. Bb5 Bd7 10 Bxd7 Qxd7 11.d5 offers White anything. If you come up with some nice lines I would be interested.

  
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phonological_loop
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #9 - 09/18/17 at 06:21:58
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What is the best way to play for a win as white in this variation? 

I was preparing my French repertoire using a database today and this line seemed surprisingly resilient for black, with black scoring almost 50%. It also seems quite drawish. 

The following seems like the most challenging for white:
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 dxe4
5. Nxe4 Be7 6. Bxf6 gxf6 7. Nf3 f5.

  
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #8 - 02/07/17 at 18:28:21
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That's the old book kind of stuff, though as for "with attack," I know some of the old games which have been cited as += had White castling long.
  
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Zagorka
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #7 - 02/07/17 at 17:17:17
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The video is from 2010, called The Busy Man´s Chess Openings, vol. 1 where Martin recommends a "wicked" variation of the Rubinstein French! It's covered in nearly 2 hours and the main game is Ivanov-Nakamura, Philadelphia 2006. He recommends after 6. Nf3 to play 6...b6, put the bishops on b7 and d6, castle long, ...Rg8 and ...f5 with attack! I have played this occasionally in blitz with good results. 
On this disk are also two other topics that are not as interesting, The Colle Koltanowski and The 1...b6 Defence.
  
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #6 - 02/02/17 at 23:08:59
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Incidentally after 3...de 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5. Nxf6+ gf 6. Nf3, I noticed when Rapport played 6...Nc6 in a game in 2014.  That produces a position I knew of from Rachels-Penkalski back in 1991, via 3. Nd2 Nc6 4. Ngf3 de 5. Nxe4 Nf6 6. Nxf6+ gf.  As I recall, Rachels later told me he had come to the conclusion that his approach in the game (involving giving up the KB to mess up the pawns on the other side) and his Informant notes (which had White reaching a slight advantage thereby) were fundamentally wrong.

I wonder what Martin's video focused on ...
  
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Stigma
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #5 - 02/02/17 at 21:38:25
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I thought the Burn variation was 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4, usually continuing either:
– 5.Nxe4 Be7 6.Bxf6 gxf6 (the line Morozevich helped popularize)
– 5.Nxe4 Be7 6.Bxf6 Bxf6 (as in in Watson's Play the French 3) or 
– 5.Nxe4 Nbd7 6.Nf3 h6 (as in Vitiugov's French books, though one could argue this is a transposition to the Rubinstein 3...dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7)

The difference is that in the Burn proper, Black can take back with the Bishop on f6, and White usually doesn't take on f6 with the knight (except in the 5...Nbd7 line). 5.Nxe4 Be7 6.Nxf6+ is considered toothless probably.

Maybe this 3...dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 is also called the Burn variation, but I can't recall seeing that before.
  

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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #4 - 02/02/17 at 08:17:54
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Morozevich played a lot theese lines as Black, also. 

The line is called "Burn Variation" and there are lots of videos on youtube commenting games in the line. It seems interesting to me, you get an imbalanced position very early on in the game.
  
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #3 - 02/01/17 at 14:06:17
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Nakamura has played this in blitz and rapid with good results. I believe it was a topic in one video by Andrew Martin called "chess openings for busy people" or something like that. I believe you will find it with a google search.
  
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #2 - 01/31/17 at 22:30:50
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One also wonders resources on this line (and even a name?)—if I decide to play it I'd rather get into a += position than a +- position.
  
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Re: 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
Reply #1 - 01/31/17 at 20:15:23
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As far as I know it's regarded as a += kind of thing.
  
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3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6+ gxf6
01/31/17 at 19:54:00
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Is this totally unsound? 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 dxe4 5 Nxe4 Be7 6 Bxf6 gxf6 is obviously more favorable, but I currently play 3 ... Bb4 against 3 Nc3, and am trying this line against 3 Nd2, i.e. 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6 gxf6.

I've often found myself lost around move 11, though I don't always lose.
  
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