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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) GM repertoire - Pirc (Read 37258 times)
pirc kid
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #27 - 12/23/17 at 22:34:29
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As in Chapter 1 explained, if White aims for the well known classical setup, Marin explained why to avoid this line

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.h3 Nbd7 8.a4 Qc7 9.Be3

where Marin see problems with both 9...b6 and 9...e5, and therefore wanted to avoid it in the first place.  Instead he recommends 7... Qc7 followed by quick e5 and exd4.

This White setup is often reached through different move orders, often started as accelerated classical. I think Marin contradicts his repertoire against this setup with chapter 9.

In chapter 9 his chosen move order is 4.Be3 c6 5.h3 Nbd7 (the chapter only deals with 6.f4 and 6.g4, no mentioning of transpositions)

So if White plays now 6.Nf3 aiming for the same setup as above, the obvious problem is, that blacks knight is already on d7. If Black now goes 6...Qc7, 7.a4 Bg7 8.Be2 0-0, 9.0-0 we reach the same position as above, which Marin wants to avoid.

Other 6th moves such as 6...e5 (7.de5 de5, 8.Bc4 Bg7, 9.Qd6) or 6...Bg7 (7.e5) are not that convincing.

Or I play 4.Le3 c6, 5.h3 Bg7 to solve the classical problem but have to skip Marins repertoire after 6.f4

Did I miss anything?
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #26 - 12/11/17 at 01:21:54
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Hi.

dali wrote on 12/10/17 at 17:07:44:
there's lots of analysis. it's in the book.

Quite right. Smiley

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #25 - 12/10/17 at 17:07:44
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there's lots of analysis. it's in the book.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #24 - 12/10/17 at 12:31:42
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Hi.

TD wrote on 12/08/17 at 09:46:02:
"Nikos with a quick overview on the Mihail Marin book, Grandmaster Repertoire – Pirc Defence"

http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/6300

Much appreciated these kind of things it seems. I personally think it's a nice way to promote the book.

Hopefully there will be some analysis coming later as well.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #23 - 12/08/17 at 09:46:02
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"Nikos with a quick overview on the Mihail Marin book, Grandmaster Repertoire – Pirc Defence"

http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/6300
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #22 - 11/09/17 at 06:16:31
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #21 - 11/08/17 at 11:07:20
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http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1891394

I am far less impressed than Gewgaw.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #20 - 11/08/17 at 09:38:39
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gewgaw wrote on 11/07/17 at 12:20:46:
Check the game Naidisch - Ponomarjov


Could someone post the game here?
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #19 - 11/08/17 at 08:04:07
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Hi.

JEH wrote on 11/07/17 at 15:30:31:
gewgaw wrote on 11/07/17 at 12:20:46:
looks like a refutation of the Pirc


One of them,  Grin

In fact Chesspub forum tradition dictates there needs to be posted on the forum at least one new "refutation" of the Pirc every year.

Or, some say, the Pirc will get unrefuted for ever Shocked


gewgaw wrote on 11/07/17 at 12:20:46:
http://en.chessbase.com/post/european-team-championship-2017-live

Check the game Naidisch - Ponomarjov, looks like a refutation of the Pirc. What is Marin`s set up against it?

He goes 5...Nbd7 and if 6.g4 b5 (! - Marin) 7.a3 he doesn't go 7...Bg7.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #18 - 11/07/17 at 15:30:31
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gewgaw wrote on 11/07/17 at 12:20:46:
looks like a refutation of the Pirc


One of them,  Grin
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #17 - 11/07/17 at 12:20:46
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http://en.chessbase.com/post/european-team-championship-2017-live

Check the game Naidisch - Ponomarjov, looks like a refutation of the Pirc. What is Marin`s set up against it?
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #16 - 10/14/17 at 10:12:09
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Thanks for the updates!  Smiley
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #15 - 10/13/17 at 00:24:58
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Marin recommends 8…fxe6, while also providing some analysis of 8…Bxb5 9.exf7+ Kf8 as a way of keeping the game going.

Andrew Greet on the QC blog on the Austrian Attack main line (Bb5+, e5, e6).
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #14 - 10/11/17 at 23:41:18
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Hello.

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 c6 (5.Nf3 Bg7; 5.h3 Nbd7; 5.Qd2 Nbd7)
and
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6

Are now confirmed as being recommended in the book.
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/6223#comment-344149

Only a few more weeks...

Have a nice day.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #13 - 10/07/17 at 14:46:05
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Hello.

picasso911 wrote on 10/07/17 at 10:42:07:
Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed after reading the excerpt.

In the first place, his recommendations in the Austrian with 5...c5 look to me slightly irritating considering Marin's great games and results with 5...0-0/6...Na6. It seems, he primarily wants his book to be a little more different from his previous DVDs and maybe from Tiger's book as well.

Secondly, I thought he would present a bunch of his own games explaining his thought process in the middlegames and the resulting endgames. Instead, after the "naked" (certainly strong!) moves in theory, there is just an evaluation and unfortunately no more middlegame plans or motifs to remember for the reader.

The 5...c5 Austrian (and certainly the 5.a3 0-0 6.Nf3 c5 in the excerpt) is a lot about playing the right moves and sequences and is fundamentally a lot more principled way of playing compared to the strategic wizardry of 5...0-0 6.Bd3 Na6. I suppose therefore that if there is some imbalance towards concreteness over strategic considerations, in the Austrian part of the book at least, it would seem fairly ok for me. That being said I too was hoping for 5...0-0 6.Bd3 Na6. Tongue

Most interesting of all for me though is how well or unwell Marin weaves in strategy in the 4.Be3 c6 chapters. Here, even if the moves given are good ones, one can certainly make the argument that some basic strategic understanding of the positions is good for an author to convey to the reader.

Given that 4.Be3 c6 is the line chosen there is presumably also a good chance that the 6...c6 classical will be seen (otherwise for example black would have to do something clever after 4.Be3 c6 5.Be2 - although I'm not saying this should be a total impossibility). Here some strategic wisdom from Marin would be welcome. Black's task strategically is not really so easy imo.

Have a nice day.

  
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