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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) GM repertoire - Pirc (Read 43801 times)
JEH
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #29 - 12/26/17 at 13:05:30
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pirc kid wrote on 12/23/17 at 22:34:29:
As in Chapter 1 explained, if White aims for the well known classical setup, Marin explained why to avoid this line

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.h3 Nbd7 8.a4 Qc7 9.Be3

where Marin see problems with both 9...b6 and 9...e5, and therefore wanted to avoid it in the first place.  Instead he recommends 7... Qc7 followed by quick e5 and exd4.

[snip]

Did I miss anything?


Inspired by the Ivanchuck waiting move 9. ..Re8! in the Accelerated Classical, how about 9. ..Re8, so after e5, e4 is immediately under threat, but Black isn't committed to e5 just yet.


  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #28 - 12/25/17 at 15:17:32
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Hi.

pirc kid wrote on 12/23/17 at 22:34:29:
Did I miss anything?

Nope. This appears to be a definite move order problem related to the repertoire.

pirc kid wrote on 12/23/17 at 22:34:29:
Other 6th moves such as 6...e5 (7.de5 de5, 8.Bc4 Bg7, 9.Qd6) or 6...Bg7 (7.e5) are not that convincing.

Yes. Not so easy to play black at all after 6.Nf3.

Maybe 6...Qa5 is the only move that does not present immediate drawbacks; although I am not saying there won't be any in the future.

After 6...e5:
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 c6 5.h3 Nbd7 6.Nf3 e5 7.dxe5 dxe5 8.Bc4 Bg7?
Is not so good and black can play a bit tougher.
Maybe 8...h6 and white is robbed of Ng5 at least.
8...Bb4 is an idea as well when white should probably play 9.0-0(!) with good chances to put pressure on black, although not without some decent play still being needed.

If 6...Qc7 7.a4 maybe 7...e5 is now an alternative as well. Ok that there might be some questons if this Qc7+Nbd7 setup really has a future or if you are just playing moves as black.

and of course 6...Bg7 7.Be2 (or 7.Qd2, which I would probably slightly prefer even) is possible but I don't see how to steer away from Marin's line in a reasonable way.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #27 - 12/23/17 at 22:34:29
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As in Chapter 1 explained, if White aims for the well known classical setup, Marin explained why to avoid this line

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.h3 Nbd7 8.a4 Qc7 9.Be3

where Marin see problems with both 9...b6 and 9...e5, and therefore wanted to avoid it in the first place.  Instead he recommends 7... Qc7 followed by quick e5 and exd4.

This White setup is often reached through different move orders, often started as accelerated classical. I think Marin contradicts his repertoire against this setup with chapter 9.

In chapter 9 his chosen move order is 4.Be3 c6 5.h3 Nbd7 (the chapter only deals with 6.f4 and 6.g4, no mentioning of transpositions)

So if White plays now 6.Nf3 aiming for the same setup as above, the obvious problem is, that blacks knight is already on d7. If Black now goes 6...Qc7, 7.a4 Bg7 8.Be2 0-0, 9.0-0 we reach the same position as above, which Marin wants to avoid.

Other 6th moves such as 6...e5 (7.de5 de5, 8.Bc4 Bg7, 9.Qd6) or 6...Bg7 (7.e5) are not that convincing.

Or I play 4.Le3 c6, 5.h3 Bg7 to solve the classical problem but have to skip Marins repertoire after 6.f4

Did I miss anything?
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #26 - 12/11/17 at 01:21:54
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Hi.

dali wrote on 12/10/17 at 17:07:44:
there's lots of analysis. it's in the book.

Quite right. Smiley

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #25 - 12/10/17 at 17:07:44
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there's lots of analysis. it's in the book.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #24 - 12/10/17 at 12:31:42
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Hi.

TD wrote on 12/08/17 at 09:46:02:
"Nikos with a quick overview on the Mihail Marin book, Grandmaster Repertoire – Pirc Defence"

http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/6300

Much appreciated these kind of things it seems. I personally think it's a nice way to promote the book.

Hopefully there will be some analysis coming later as well.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #23 - 12/08/17 at 09:46:02
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"Nikos with a quick overview on the Mihail Marin book, Grandmaster Repertoire – Pirc Defence"

http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/6300
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #22 - 11/09/17 at 06:16:31
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #21 - 11/08/17 at 11:07:20
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http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1891394

I am far less impressed than Gewgaw.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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JEH
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #20 - 11/08/17 at 09:38:39
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gewgaw wrote on 11/07/17 at 12:20:46:
Check the game Naidisch - Ponomarjov


Could someone post the game here?
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #19 - 11/08/17 at 08:04:07
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Hi.

JEH wrote on 11/07/17 at 15:30:31:
gewgaw wrote on 11/07/17 at 12:20:46:
looks like a refutation of the Pirc


One of them,  Grin

In fact Chesspub forum tradition dictates there needs to be posted on the forum at least one new "refutation" of the Pirc every year.

Or, some say, the Pirc will get unrefuted for ever Shocked


gewgaw wrote on 11/07/17 at 12:20:46:
http://en.chessbase.com/post/european-team-championship-2017-live

Check the game Naidisch - Ponomarjov, looks like a refutation of the Pirc. What is Marin`s set up against it?

He goes 5...Nbd7 and if 6.g4 b5 (! - Marin) 7.a3 he doesn't go 7...Bg7.

Have a nice day.
  
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JEH
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #18 - 11/07/17 at 15:30:31
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gewgaw wrote on 11/07/17 at 12:20:46:
looks like a refutation of the Pirc


One of them,  Grin
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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gewgaw
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #17 - 11/07/17 at 12:20:46
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http://en.chessbase.com/post/european-team-championship-2017-live

Check the game Naidisch - Ponomarjov, looks like a refutation of the Pirc. What is Marin`s set up against it?
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #16 - 10/14/17 at 10:12:09
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Thanks for the updates!  Smiley
  
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Re: GM repertoire - Pirc
Reply #15 - 10/13/17 at 00:24:58
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Marin recommends 8…fxe6, while also providing some analysis of 8…Bxb5 9.exf7+ Kf8 as a way of keeping the game going.

Andrew Greet on the QC blog on the Austrian Attack main line (Bb5+, e5, e6).
  
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