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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen... (Read 27255 times)
MNb
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #31 - 09/19/17 at 07:22:42
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kylemeister wrote on 09/16/17 at 23:06:31:
I wonder if Kasparov has addressed that in a specific way.

Yes (or perhaps rather implied it) according to my memory, which is notoriously unreliable. Plus the memory is from about 30 years ago.
  

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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #30 - 09/17/17 at 00:34:51
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I still think that you need to be a fairly high-class player to be able to break all of those rules like "get castled quickly, " etc.  There are plenty of opportunities for dynamic counterplay in those modern lines, start with those that sees Black rapidly developing his entire kingside and I suspect that your results will improve.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #29 - 09/16/17 at 23:06:31
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MNb wrote on 09/16/17 at 21:32:43:
You are aware of the fact that Karpov made Kasparov switch to 5...a6 because of the Keres Attack?


I wonder if Kasparov has addressed that in a specific way.  As far as I know the only actual Keres he contested against Karpov was the first game of their first match (which was drawn and has been given as equal out of the opening).   
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #28 - 09/16/17 at 21:32:43
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SouthofGrey wrote on 09/16/17 at 06:01:42:
But the games of Kasparov are what really drew me to this opening

You are aware of the fact that Karpov made Kasparov switch to 5...a6 because of the Keres Attack?
  

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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #27 - 09/16/17 at 08:38:38
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I'd say that Llaneza Vega-Giri looks like pretty classical stuff in terms of what Black would like to attain in the Schevy.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #26 - 09/16/17 at 06:01:42
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I've been looking at games very slowly. There seem to be an awful lot of tactical bombs here that Black needs to be aware of but the positions are interesting. 



Apparently this Qh3 maneuver is a lot more dangerous than it looks and the pawns are as vulnerable as anything else in these positions. I'm not really used to looking at the board this way unless I'm doing tactics puzzles... 

I can see why people suggested the modern Scheveningen now and how staying in the center seems to require you to have a really good eye for tactics. But the games of Kasparov are what really drew me to this opening and so I'm going to keep trying to play this way. I don't think my opponents will play this aggressively right now but it's still really interesting to learn these tactics.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #25 - 05/06/17 at 16:14:55
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Right, you're still playing chess, whatever opening you're playing.  Too many people seem to get caught up in the "I'm playing the Najdorf!" or "I'm playing the King's Indian!" style of thinking, which makes them forget about things like basic development and king safety.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #24 - 05/03/17 at 18:31:57
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I too think the modern lines are easier to start with than the classical lines.  But that doesn't have much to do with leaving your king in the center.  Neglecting your king is a no-no, whichever form of Scheveningen you play.

In the classical Scheveningen, one of the more famous examples is Lasker-Pirc, Moscow 1935.  Pirc left his king in the center to get his queenside play going.  And got crushed for it:






          
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #23 - 05/02/17 at 19:59:03
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Another small tip for the original poster: if you want to stick with the Scheveningen, play the lines in Pritchett's book, which generally have you castling early and delaying ...a6.  Playing in Najdorf-style (as you appear to be doing) is much more sophisticated and difficult, and more likely to end in an opening disaster with your king stuck in the middle of the board.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #22 - 05/02/17 at 18:43:19
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One small tip, study anti sicilians carefully as well since at club level the open sicilian is very rare. Open sicilians becomes more common when opponents has heiger rating.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #21 - 05/01/17 at 17:30:43
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Acck, how did that second position come about?  You've got to get yourself castled and develop pieces quickly, all of the "rules" of general opening play still apply.  Sometimes strong players can bend the rules by delaying kingside development in favor of ...b7-b5, ...Bb7, ...Rc8, etc., but even at the top level they're flirting with disaster if they misjudge things.  

In general in the Scheveningen, you want to play ...e6, ...Nf6, ...d6, ...Be7, and ...0-0 pretty quickly. 

Also in your first example, let's not forget about general chess principles.  With 7.e5? White gave up control of the d5-square very early on, and you can take advantage direct advantage of that with 8...Nd5!  Black's already at least slightly better, in my opinion, so judging pawn breaks accurately certainly goes both ways.  In general you want to go forward and take space when you can, right?  The e5-pawn will be there to put pressure on for the rest of the game.  

It just seems to me that you're a developing player, that's fine.  Read some general books on chess strategy and tactics and keep trying to get better.  

On the other hand, are you enjoying playing the Scheveningen?  If not, there's no sense in persisting.  Also, I learned the Dragon for my first Sicilian, and I think that it was helpful for learning all of the strategic themes without being blown off of the board with my king stuck in the center early on.  In pretty much every game I played ...c5, ...d6, ...Nf6, ...g6, ...Bg7, and ...0-0 very quickly and avoided some of the early problems that you're having.  I like the Dragon for taking your first steps in the Sicilian, because it's generally clear where all of your pieces belong and you can get all of your bits out quickly in accordance with sound general principles. 
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #20 - 05/01/17 at 01:22:19
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Stick with it.  It sounds like you're learning.  But you may want to brush up on the basics first.  You're not going to do well in any opening if you neglect your king safety.  In these Classic Schevy positions, you want to play ..Be7 and ..0-0 as soon as you can, and stop leaving your king in the center.

It would be good to study tactics too.  Yes, you can switch to an opening that is quieter than the Sicilian, but if you do that, you'll just be avoiding the problem, rather than solving it.  And eventually your unfamiliarity with these types of tactics will hold your chess back. 
 

   
« Last Edit: 05/01/17 at 05:03:03 by LeeRoth »  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #19 - 04/30/17 at 11:34:18
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Just to update, I'm running into the tactical problems I thought I would. Judging pawn breaks incorrectly can lead to terrible positions whereas a bad decision by White just drops him to equality. Here are some examples:



10...Nxe5 11.Qg3 wins material. 

10...Nc6 11.Nxc6 bc 12.O-O-O Rb8 (what else?) 13.Qg3 and now:
a) 13...Qb4 14.b3 
b) 13...g6 14.Bc4 Bg7 15.Ne4 is really bad
And anything else requires Black to damage his own kingside just to complete development. 

So what did I learn? There are tactical ways to defend the pawn and if Black is not aware then he's toast and that 9...Qb6, kind of just ignoring the pawn is better. Great... Let's have another: 



As interesting as this opening seems I don't see how I can realistically play it if I'm walking into these things all the time. I've never even seen a Rxf7 tactic like this before or even Bxg6 and who knows how many other decisions have to made by the explanation, "play it because everything else loses." This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to avoid. Maybe it has a lot to do with playing ...a6. I don't really know. But I can't help but wonder how many more of these traps are waiting for Black.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #18 - 02/13/17 at 19:04:15
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Well, yes. And that's still true even after you study the opening. You will be attacked early and often if you play this opening. If you don't like being attacked, don't play it. 

The tone of your comments really speaks of a painful misconception common among inexperienced players about what studying an opening and understanding themes in pawn structures can and can't do for you. A good strategic understanding of an opening is just a kind of coloring of your general understanding of chess--it can't take you so very far beyond that. Yes, you can beat weak players with a recipe opening like the Stonewall or Colle, and yes in internet blitz you can lose to some completely unsound BS where you would have won if you knew the refutation, but in slow chess and mainstream openings these are much less the case. Being subjected to an unsound attack should not be your biggest worry--unlike in blitz, you will have time to discover its disadvantages. Being subjected to a sound attack and not knowing anything about it is the real concern of this kind in studying an opening--and there are plenty of those to worry about in the Scheveningen. But beyond a certain number of moves, normally neither you nor your opponent will know if an attack is sound or not!

On the other hand, if you're not strong enough to think of reasonable replies (not refutations) to unexpected opening moves, that's ok, for if your opponent is of a strength similar to yours, then an opening advantage won't mean much anyway. The game will probably be decided by heavy mistakes on both sides later on. So there again unsound attacks in the opening should not be an excessive concern.

All you can do profitably at this stage is memorize the basic theory (like the summary LeeRoth so generously provided below) to cope with sound responses, maybe look up traps, inspect a bunch of grandmaster games in these lines (especially from the main tabiyas) in a database to see how Black wins when he wins and loses when he loses, and gain experience over the board. 

It's not worth doing a lot of more detailed opening study before you venture the opening in practical play, because you really can't tell if you like the positions or not--or how far in your opponents will know the theory (it's useless to memorize some 20-move forcing line if no one you play even gets close to entering it). And you can't a real feel for the positions from  a book, but only by losing a lot (and winning).

So I say jump in and enjoy. It'll be fun to be able to say you play the Scheveningen! (I only play lines that I enjoy and enjoy identifying myself with). Good luck!
« Last Edit: 02/14/17 at 17:35:48 by ReneDescartes »  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #17 - 02/12/17 at 18:13:38
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Thanks everyone. I think I'm just worried that I'll miss some important pawn break and just end up only defending for the entire game. Pawn Structure Chess has been an interesting read but I noticed that it only has one game in the Scheveningen structure that features the ...Nxc3 tactic. Also there aren't any games that show how Black's minority attack works and only one game with the idea ...Ne5-c4. When looking at games with an engine it always finds these ideas but I don't find them myself. 

Some of these ideas can be found in the section on the Dragon which I guess I'll have to look at even though I don't intend on playing it myself.  I'll still give it a try though. I'm just really not into these positions where if Black isn't aware of all these different pawn breaks and what to do about them that he can just end up in a bad position right out of the opening. On the other hand this stuff seems very natural for White even if it isn't always sound. I feel like I could easily lose to an unsound attack simply because I made the wrong decision.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #16 - 02/12/17 at 14:30:00
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It was the thinness of the first edition that attracted me to the Modern Schevy as something that might be easy to learn and play.  I also viewed it as a stepping stone to the Classical lines.   

The second edition is updated, but it's still only 45 pages of analysis.  About half the "book" is simply filler -- an 80 page database dump of unannotated games.  So for me, it's still basically a big "pamphlet," even if bound and not stapled.

  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #15 - 02/12/17 at 04:16:28
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LeeRoth wrote on 02/12/17 at 02:35:14:

2.  Also, after what may be best play in this simplifying line:  8.Bh4 Nxe4 9.Bxe7 Nxc3 10.Bxd8 Nxd1 11.Bc7! Ne3 12.Bxd6 Bd7 13.Bd3! I'd say its a draw with best play.  But my engine says that White actually has a small edge.


Ah, what I remembered is 11. Rxd1, like in a game L. Steiner-Najdorf (which has been cited as equal).

Speaking of the Soltis "pamphlet," I recalled the first edition (1983) as quite thin.  Apparently it was 40 pages, but was beefed up (/stretched out) to 160 in 1995.


  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #14 - 02/12/17 at 02:47:42
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ErictheRed wrote on 02/11/17 at 23:53:09:
I don't remember precisely, but it looks to me like LeeRoth is recommending mostly lines from Craig Pritchett's Starting Out book on the Scheveningen, which I thought was excellent. 


Soltis, actually.  From his 1995 Chess Digest pamphlet on the Schevy.  (See the end of my first post.)

Of course, I had to update some of Soltis's analysis with Pritchett's excellent book.  

BTW, Pritchett's main recommendation is the Modern Schevy with 9..Bd7, which is also an option.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #13 - 02/12/17 at 02:35:14
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kylemeister wrote on 02/11/17 at 20:09:52:
Incidentally I seem to recall Bernard Zuckerman claiming an edge for Black in the simplified position resulting from 8...Nxe4 in that last line.  I've wondered if 6. Bg5 is common at lower levels; it may be ignored in some material (for instance Herman Grooten's [Dutch-language] Scheveningen articles from this page:  http://www.schaaksite.nl/2013/05/03/overzicht-begrijp-wat-u-doet/).


I'm not sure how common 6.Bg5 is, but its something for Black to think about.  

1.  The main recommendation -- 8..Nxe4 -- heads to what's supposed to be a drawn ending.  That's fine, but if you only ever see 6.Bg5 from lower-rated players, that's not exactly what you're looking to do.  

2.  Also, after what may be best play in this simplifying line:  8.Bh4 Nxe4 9.Bxe7 Nxc3 10.Bxd8 Nxd1 11.Bc7! Ne3 12.Bxd6 Bd7 13.Bd3! I'd say its a draw with best play.  But my engine says that White actually has a small edge. 

Cool
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #12 - 02/11/17 at 23:53:09
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I don't remember precisely, but it looks to me like LeeRoth is recommending mostly lines from Craig Pritchett's Starting Out book on the Scheveningen, which I thought was excellent.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #11 - 02/11/17 at 20:09:52
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Incidentally I seem to recall Bernard Zuckerman claiming an edge for Black in the simplified position resulting from 8...Nxe4 in that last line.  I've wondered if 6. Bg5 is common at lower levels; it may be ignored in some material (for instance Herman Grooten's [Dutch-language] Scheveningen articles from this page:  http://www.schaaksite.nl/2013/05/03/overzicht-begrijp-wat-u-doet/).
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #10 - 02/11/17 at 19:43:37
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Here is a relatively simple, starting out repertoire for learning the Scheveningen:  1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6

I.  6.Be2 is the main line, when Black plays 9..e5 and 10..exf4.  6..Be7 7.0-0 0-0 8.Be3 (Move order matters, since 8.f4 allows 8..Qb6. Black can also just play 8..Nc6 likely transposing back to the text.) 8..Nc6 9.f4 e5, which has been been played by Spassky and Kasparov. 10.Nb3 is White's best, maintaining the tension.  White gets nothing from the various attempts to take on c6 or e5.  10..exf4 Kasparov's choice, aiming for ..d5.  Now there are two main lines: (a) 11.Bxf4 Be6 12.Kh1 d5 equalizing. Play usually goes 13.e5 Nd7 14.Nxd5 Ndxe5 15.c4 Bg5, when Black is fine. (b) 11.Rxf4 Be6 (11..Ne8 with the idea of 12..Bf6 is also thought to be equal)  12.Nd5 Bxd5 13.exd5 Ne5 is equal.

II.  6.Be3 Be7 7.f3 is the English Attack, which Black can meet with a quick ..d5. 7..Nc6 8.Qd2 0-0 when 9.g4 is intended to discourage 9..d5 because of 10.g5. The main line is 10..Nd4 11.Qd4 Nh5 which, according to Pritchett, is fine for Black.  If Black doesn't like this, he can instead play 9..Nd7 10.0-0-0 Nde5 attacking the f-pawn.  The other line is 9.0-0-0 d5 10.exd5 Nxd5 11.Nxd5 Qxd5, when Black is also thought to be fine.  10.Be2 is the latest fashion here and is supposed to retain a White edge, but, if so, it's still a game with plenty of play left. 

III.  6.f4 Nc6! (6..Be7 7.Bb5 Bd7 8.e5 is annoying) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Qf3 is the Suetin Attack.  Black can play 8..e5!? 9.Nxc6 bxc6 10.f5 Rb8 with ..Qa5 to follow.  The alternative:9.Nf5 Bxf5 10.exf5 Nd4 11.Bxd4 exd4 12.Nb5 Qa5 13.c3 dxc3 is fine for Black.

IV. 6.g4 is the Keres Attack when 6..h6 7.h4 Be7 was suggested by both Pritchett and Soltis -- I prefer 7..Nc6 -- when 8.Rg1 can be met by 8..d5 and 8.Qf3 can be met by 8..h5 with complicated play in both instances.  White can also play 7.Rg1, 7.h3 and 7.Bg2.  There is too much to cover here; suffice to say that that, while these lines are generally easier to play from the White side, Black can hold his own (the theoretical verdict seems to shift every few years from +/= to = and back again).  If you don't like the Keres, you can play a set-up with ..Nc6/..d6/..e6, and learn the Sozin/Velimirovic in case of White's Bc4. 

V.  6.g3 can safely be met with a quick 6..Nc6 7.Bg2 Bd7! Then 8.0-0 Be7 9.Nxc6 Bxc6 10.a4 0-0 is fine for Black.

VI.  6.Bc4 aims for a Sozin or Velimirovic, but Black can cross up White by playing ..Na6 instead of ..Nc6.  For example, 6..Be7 7.Bb3 0-0 8.Be3 Na6.  The Knight turns out to be well-placed on a6 since it can go to c5, hitting the White Bishop and e4 pawn, while defending the Black e6 pawn.

VII.  6.Bg5 usually hopes for a Rauzer or Najdorf.  Black can instead play 6..Be7 7.f4 h6 8.Bh4 when 8..Nxe4 liquidates into an equal ending and 8..Nc6 keeps some life in the game.   
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #9 - 02/11/17 at 16:49:14
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SouthofGrey wrote on 02/10/17 at 17:52:48:

I want to be able to play the opening based on understanding of the position rather than having to memorize a bunch of "only moves" or concrete sequences to get out of the opening.


The Scheveningen is a great opening, where you won't have to memorize long sequences of "only" moves.  It's also not an opening where the defense rests on a hairline.  One of the nice things about the Scheveningen is that, in the main lines, Black doesn't move the pawns in front of his King.  This makes the King's position more resilient and forgiving.  One mistake won't necessarily sink you; it often takes a couple of Black mistakes for White to crash through.  Compared to something like the Dragon, where even the tyros know to pry open the h-file and sac, sac, mate, White has to work harder in the Scheveningen to drum up an effective attack.

However, the Scheveningen is also not an opening that can be played on general understanding; at least not well.  The Scheveningen is complex, with a lot of different plans and pawn breaks.  This flexibility is the Schevy's greatest strength and its greatest weakness.  It is difficult to understand.  For both sides.  

For example, in the Classical Scheveningen lines where White plays Be2, Black has to be on the look out for White to attack with (i) e4-e5, (ii) f4-f5, or (iii) g4-g5.  What do you do as Black when one of these happens?  These types of decisions cannot be made solely based on general considerations; they take calculation and a feel for the position that comes from having studied Schevy games and theory.

There are countless other decisions that Black has to make in the Schevy.  What do you do with your little center?  Do you keep the pawns intact or do you play for ..e5 or ..d5 and, if so, when.  Again, these decisions are hard to make, and they take calculation and study. As a friend of used to say, "Don't just move by hand, remember your ABCs -- always be calculating."       

Martin C. gives good advice.  If you want to start in on the Scheveningen, play the modern lines where you omit ..a6.  These are easier to learn, cut down on the choices, and can be a stepping stone to the classical lines, when you are ready.  I would recommend the repertoire that Soltis himself gave in a Chess Digest pamphlet on the Schevy.  (See the next post.)


  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #8 - 02/11/17 at 04:51:29
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P.s. Stop listening to what a bunch of people on forums think and start thinking and playing for yourself.  When you start to experience problems, then go looking for solutions.  But for now it seems like you want to play the Sicilian Scheveningen (one of the most highly regarded of openings depending a bit on move order), why would you not?  

I also think that a player needs to be well enough versed in chess culture, positional play, tactics, opening play in general, to have the confidence to solve some opening problems over the board.  You don't have to have all of the theory figured out before you go into a game; of course where you draw the line between just winging it and preparation will depend on many factors. 

When I was rated just below 2200, I was bored with my normal opening repertoire, and in four consecutive games against 1.d4 over two tournaments I played 2 Tarrasch Defenses and 2 Benko Gambits against people all rated between 1900 and 2180.  I'd never studied any real theory (except for from the White side, as I'm a 1.d4 player), and I scored a perfect 4-0.  I was engaged, excited about my positions, and willing to work hard at the board. 

Start playing what you want now, be confident in your ability to play chess and solve the problems as they come, both during the game and after (when you go back to analyze your games).
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #7 - 02/11/17 at 04:49:35
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I agree with Kylemeister in that it depends a lot on what is meant by "class player."  If you're rated 1300 then sure, just read Pawn Structure Chess and get going.  If you're rated 1900, you'll need a little more help.   

But really I think that you're on the right path, just start playing Scheveningen structures until you experience big problems with them.  Read the relevant chapters in Pawn Structure Chess, but also buy another book (or more than one), such as Starting Out: the Scheveningen Sicilian.  You can start playing the opening right away and use the more detailed book as a reference to check after you play a game, and slowly work through it.  You don't have to feel completely booked up and ready to go before jumping into a new opening, especially if you're a "class player."

For the long haul, the Sicilian will be a ton of work, but it will be extremely rewarding and you'd might as well get started on it now.  I got started with the Sicilian when I knew essentially nothing about chess (I went 0-4 with a provisional rating of 928 in my first tournament, and I was 17 years old) and I've played it ever since.  If you fall into the trap of needing to be fully prepared before you start a new opening, you'll never start playing a new opening!  Just start playing it and study as you go, buy a book on the anti-Sicilians when they start giving you a problem, etc. 

In the end, any good opening with the highest of pedigrees will require a ton of work, just start playing it now.  Your workload will not be significantly different than many 1...e5 lines, sharp French lines, etc.
  
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SouthofGrey
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #6 - 02/11/17 at 02:39:10
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Yeah maybe this is a bit too much to ask. It just seems that when playing those closed French positions or those Rubenstein structures in the Caro-Kann that there are fewer tactics in the opening and the game is more about how both sides develop the pieces at least until the middlegame. It's true that sometimes White can sac a pawn in the French or play some kind of Ng5 idea in the Caro-Kann but that stuff is rare. 

Maybe I'll give it a try anyway though.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #5 - 02/11/17 at 00:31:44
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tl;dr - cannot just learn an opening from pawn structures even though pawn structures are essential.

IMHO, I think there is some confusion here about learning to play chess and openings. Learning an opening is not a linear event. Very well (and to be applauded) to learn pawn structures related to a certain opening but chess at the end of the day is a concrete game. One also has to learn the concrete lines and there will be certain memorisation involved of the main lines (perhaps up to 16-20 ply) and their variations. There is no escape. Of course, pawn structures also help in memorisation as concrete pawn structures help to trigger the memory. There will also be memorisation of the strategic plans associated with different pawn structures (Schevy pawn structure is not just one linear structure). As Martin C pointed out, there are also concrete tactics and tactical themes and motifs associated with each opening and variations.

A good description of learning an opening was proferred by ErictheRed on this Forum when he said he learn to play the Ragozin by learning from Shereshevsky's Endgame book (two-vol, not Strategy book), perhaps we can persuade ErictheRed to provide more details on what happened after he started playing as I guess it will be a non-linear effort.
« Last Edit: 02/11/17 at 13:48:51 by GabrielGale »  

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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #4 - 02/10/17 at 21:18:19
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I'd say I've been one of the top two fans of PSC on this board, but it sounds as though you're expecting too much from the book.

Incidentally another pawn-structury book I liked (Dynamic Pawn Play in Chess by Marovic) had illustrative games with perhaps every major system against the Schevy, albeit it's pretty old.

One thing I wonder is what "class player" refers to here -- the term covers a lot of ground.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #3 - 02/10/17 at 20:18:34
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MartinC wrote on 02/10/17 at 19:53:43:
If you play it via a set up which delays a6 - either the direct move order or via Nc6/e6/d6 - then the number of really concrete lines drops really quite considerably.

The opening never gets tactics free of course Smiley


Yes I intend to just play the normal move order with ...d6 and ...e6. I just want to get the basic position on the board and then figure things out from there.
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #2 - 02/10/17 at 20:01:37
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good luck with that
  
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Re: So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
Reply #1 - 02/10/17 at 19:53:43
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If you play it via a set up which delays a6 - either the direct move order or via Nc6/e6/d6 - then the number of really concrete lines drops really quite considerably.

The opening never gets tactics free of course Smiley
  
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So I Think I Want to Learn The Sheveningen...
02/10/17 at 17:52:48
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I am a class player and I am reading the book "Pawn Structure Chess" and I chose to learn the Scheveningen because I wanted to be able to play an opening while having guidance on what I should be thinking about from that book. The Scheveningen structure seemed like the most basic one in the Sicilian and so I wanted to try and learn more about this pawn structure. However, apart from the structures you can get in the Caro-Kann or the French, I am worried that White has so many lines that lead to concrete play in the Scheveningen that I would just end up memorizing a lot of lines and sequences rather than just trying to play the position at the board based on what I read in "Pawn Structure Chess." 

I want to be able to play the opening based on understanding of the position rather than having to memorize a bunch of "only moves" or concrete sequences to get out of the opening. The main point of using "Pawn Structure Chess" was to be able to try and play the pawn structures well but it seems to me that the Scheveningen (and maybe the Sicilian in general) doesn't really allow for this and requires a lot of tactical play in the opening. I didn't really want to have to play this way. Is this a problem and should I just try playing some other opening or is it not so serious to play this structure with Black without knowing much theory?
  
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