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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7 (Read 10423 times)
brabo
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #26 - 06/10/19 at 18:58:23
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Pawnpusher wrote on 06/10/19 at 16:24:47:
Brabo what is the link to the blog article you wrote about corr databases? Please and thanks!

I wrote several articles about correspondence chess but probably http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2018/02/ultracorr-x.html is for you the most interesting one.
  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #25 - 06/10/19 at 16:24:47
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Brabo what is the link to the blog article you wrote about corr databases? Please and thanks!
  
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brabo
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #24 - 06/07/19 at 06:00:08
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mn wrote on 06/07/19 at 03:55:26:
So what's happening in the Keres line with 11...Nd7 and 12...exd4 these days - is the "main line" with 12...exd4 13 cxd4 Nc6 14 d5 Nce5 15 a4 Rb8 15 axb5 axb5 16 Nxe5 Nxe5 17 f4 Ng6 18 Nf3 Bh4 19 Rf1 Bg3 20 f5 Ne5 21 Ng5 just bad for Black, and if so, where should he deviate?

The earlier mentioned book "The Chigorin Bible" says that black is ok with 21...h6. I did't verify the analysis. Besides the same book also says that 12.a4 is nowadays the new mainline against the Keres line. For sure the book is mandatory for anybody playing this opening regularly (I do with both colors).
  
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mn
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #23 - 06/07/19 at 03:55:26
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So what's happening in the Keres line with 11...Nd7 and 12...exd4 these days - is the "main line" with 12...exd4 13 cxd4 Nc6 14 d5 Nce5 15 a4 Rb8 15 axb5 axb5 16 Nxe5 Nxe5 17 f4 Ng6 18 Nf3 Bh4 19 Rf1 Bg3 20 f5 Ne5 21 Ng5 just bad for Black, and if so, where should he deviate?
  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #22 - 04/26/19 at 23:00:21
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Sauron wrote on 01/30/19 at 16:17:44:
The book lacks the 'refutation' of 12.-Bd7 given by Khalifman in his Anand series:

13.Nf1 Nc4 14.Qe2!

This has been played over the board at least twenty times...





Is this enough for claiming an advantage?
How should black respond to this variation?

  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #21 - 01/30/19 at 16:17:44
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kylemeister wrote on 12/03/18 at 21:07:00:
I recalled this thread when I saw this -- "The Chigorin Bible" by Ivan Sokolov and Ivan Salgado Lopez.

https://www.schachversand.de/de/the-chigorin-bible.html


The book lacks the 'refutation' of 12.-Bd7 given by Khalifman in his Anand series:

13.Nf1 Nc4 14.Qe2! 

This has been played over the board at least twenty times...


  

1.Nf3! - beat your opponent by killing his zest for life.
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #20 - 12/03/18 at 21:07:00
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I recalled this thread when I saw this -- "The Chigorin Bible" by Ivan Sokolov and Ivan Salgado Lopez.

https://www.schachversand.de/de/the-chigorin-bible.html
  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #19 - 12/18/17 at 19:37:45
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Thanks for the links.
  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #18 - 12/17/17 at 23:10:10
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #17 - 12/17/17 at 19:32:13
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mn wrote on 12/15/17 at 21:47:23:
Slightly off-topic, but how is the 11...Nd7 line doing nowadays? I have good memories playing this line when I was younger, before switching to the Marshall. I remember it being considered nearly refuted a few times. Is Black meant to be okay?


I download games from The Week In Chess. From 2012 to 2016, white scores only 51% after 11...Nd7. I think theory is also positive on the Keres line. If you are just catching up, like me, the surprise is that after 12Nbd2 black prefers exd to the earlier cxd. The idea is to go into a Benoni type structure after 12Nbd2 exd 13 cxd Nc6 14d5 Nce5. At a glance it may not look like much. However black has some interesting resources on the king side. After 15Nxe5 Nxe5 16f4 Ng6 17Nf3, black can consider 17...Bh4 or 17...f5.

I prefer the Open to the Closed Ruy Lopez, but dabble in the Closed from time to time. I think black should always consider d5 by white. I suppose it could be labelled the "ultra-closed" variation. How does black best arrange his pieces after white separates black's king side from his queen side?

ChessPublishing has provided a variety of opinions on 12 d5. These are from various annotated games, and, possibly commentators:

"I continue to think that this move is excellent and leaves the Keres Variation under a cloud."

"This looks premature as Black is well placed to launch  a counterattack with ... f7-f5."

"Although this is good in many lines of the Closed Spanish, in this position it gives Black excellent counterplay."

"For a long time it has been established that Black should not fear this position. Keres himself thought that this move was premature. In fact, the present game seems to show the opposite, and puts the whole Keres variation in doubt."

For me at least, the next step would be to put eyes on the board and play through some games.



  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #16 - 12/15/17 at 21:47:23
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Slightly off-topic, but how is the 11...Nd7 line doing nowadays? I have good memories playing this line when I was younger, before switching to the Marshall. I remember it being considered nearly refuted a few times. Is Black meant to be okay?
  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #15 - 12/15/17 at 20:36:06
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kylemeister wrote on 12/15/17 at 17:45:04:
There was an article by Emanuel Berg in Informant 133 (from about three months ago), "The Chigorin in Good Hands," but I don't know what lines it addressed.


11...Nd7. Certainly the trendy line to write about.
  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #14 - 12/15/17 at 17:45:04
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There was an article by Emanuel Berg in Informant 133 (from about three months ago), "The Chigorin in Good Hands," but I don't know what lines it addressed.
  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #13 - 12/15/17 at 12:08:10
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Are there any resources for black that cover the main line of the Chigorin?

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3 O-O 9. h3 Na5 10. Bc2 c5 11. d4 Qc7 12. Nbd2 cxd4 13. cxd4 Nc6 14. Nb3 a5 15. Be3 a4 16. Nbd2 Bd7 17. Rc1 Qb7
  
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Re: [C97-99] Resources for Chigorin with 11...Qc7
Reply #12 - 03/24/17 at 16:37:24
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Correspondence should normally nowadays be very drawish. However just look at the number of wins for white in the last year. The previous years look similar. That is really abnormal. I wasn't exaggerating with my catastrophic statement.

A recent modelgame of how white crushes black. This game can't be found in the Chessbase online database yet.

Don't get distracted by whites rating. I checked his profile on iccf see https://www.iccf.com/player?id=690538 and I found out that he has not lost any game yet in a span of 42 games. The rating of the Cuban player is raising very fast.
  
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