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Normal Topic 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines (Read 5136 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #7 - 05/13/24 at 20:35:32
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It should be noted that Black's knights can come out in either order:

1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6
or
1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5!? 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Nf6!?

Now 6dxc and 6Be3 are critical. We've covered the former. After 6Be3 (1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Nf6 6. Be3), I suggest 6...Bg4 7. dc5 e6

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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #6 - 05/13/24 at 20:10:28
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FreeRepublic wrote on 05/10/24 at 16:32:16:
I've been looking at 7...Nf6 instead.


Which brings to mind the possibilty of playing 5...Nf6, as in the original post:

"b) 5 Nf3 Nf6 6 dc* Qd1 7 Kd1 and here my understanding (such as it is) is that 7 …Bf5! 8 Be3! 0-0-0 9 Nbd2 e6! 10 b4 Nd5 11 Rc1 Be7! is OK for Black."

At present I prefer 8...Nd5. 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. dc5 Qd1 7.Kd1 Bf5 8. Be3 Nd5, though it may transpose.

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The play is very complex, but I think it is ok for Black.

Perhaps a simpler way to play is 2...Nf6.  Smiley
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #5 - 05/10/24 at 16:32:16
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1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bg4 6. dxc5!? Qd1! 7. Kd1

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may be one of the better ways to play dxc as White.

7...e5  "Black has other moves here, such as 7...0-0-0+ or even just 7...Nf6, but this is clearly the most direct," John Emms, Starting out the c3 Sicilian.

White has done well from this position. I've been looking at 7...Nf6 instead.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #4 - 03/18/17 at 12:33:56
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Quote:
I think 4...Nf6 5d4xc5 Qxc5 is pretty harmless. Without Nc6, the queen can slip back to c7 when required, and black can develop with g6,and Bg7. Black can play e6, with rubinstein french pawn structure,if likes that kind of thing too.

Many thanks for this. I was probably over-influenced by a comment by Jonathan Rowson on ChessPub that he didn't personally fancy Black after 5 ...Qxc5 6 Nf3. But he did acknowledge that White isn't better, and to me these just look 'chances for both sides' positions.
  
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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #3 - 03/16/17 at 23:18:38
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I think 4...Nf6 5d4xc5 Qxc5 is pretty harmless. Without Nc6, the queen can slip back to c7 when required, and black can develop with g6,and Bg7. Black can play e6, with rubinstein french pawn structure,if likes that kind of thing too.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #2 - 03/07/17 at 14:10:38
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Afaik 5.dxc5 is just meant to be generally harmless, although it has to be added that the main line 5.Nf3 also isn't promising anything special for White, so there is some merit to playing these sidelines (or Nakamura's early Na3 as done vs. Yu) on an occasional basis.  Personally I would be inclined to start with 5.Nf3 and go dxc5 against certain replies.

Very interesting, thanks. I see there's more than one comment, in ChessPub updates by Dave Smerdon and others, that quite a few strong players are choosing 4 ...e6 to obviate dxc5 stuff, but perhaps that's just to cut down on preparation and 'mess' against that 'occasional' opponent rather than any objective signal? I'd be interested to know which replies might tempt you into 6 dxc5. (Not [4 ...Nc6 5 Nf3] 5 ...Nf6, presumably!)
  
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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #1 - 03/07/17 at 13:35:58
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Afaik 5.dxc5 is just meant to be generally harmless, although it has to be added that the main line 5.Nf3 also isn't promising anything special for White, so there is some merit to playing these sidelines (or Nakamura's early Na3 as done vs. Yu) on an occasional basis.  Personally I would be inclined to start with 5.Nf3 and go dxc5 against certain replies.
  

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Michael Ayton
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2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
03/06/17 at 22:36:12
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Can anyone tell me: is there any theoretical consensus about the value of the three dxc5 pawn-sac variations that Black can allow in seeking to reach mainline 2 c3 d5 positions, or about the best setups within them?

Of course, Black can eliminate these with [3 ed Qd5 4 d4] 4 …e6, but then 5 Nf3 Nf6 6 Na3! is a bit of a pain. (The latest ChessPub update here looks to confirm this?) So what is the status of 4 …Nf6 relative to 4 …Nc6, I wonder, and is/are either or both OK? For example:

I  4 …Nf6 5 dc Qd1 6 Kd1, and here I suppose 6 …e5 7 b4 a5 is the main line, but I notice some strong players have preferred 6 …g6!?.

II  4 …Nc6 and:

(a) 5 dc Qd1 6 Kd1. Now I wonder how 6 …e5 7 b4 a5 compares with Line I, but also whether Black should prefer 6 …Bf5!?, which again seems favoured by a few top players.

(b) 5 Nf3 Nf6 6 dc* Qd1 7 Kd1 and here my understanding (such as it is) is that 7 …Bf5! 8 Be3! 0-0-0 9 Nbd2 e6! 10 b4 Nd5 11 Rc1 Be7! is OK for Black. So is ‘II’ (any) safer/better than ‘I’?

* Of course, White could grant Black a mainline position with 6 Be2 cd 7 cd e6 8 Nc3 Qd6 (8 …Bb4!?), but then Black has managed to cut out a number of options White could have chosen with the 4 …e6 5 Nf3 Nf6 move order.


  
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