ChessPub Forum - 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines

cathexis God Member Offline No matter where you go, there you are. Posts: 628 Location: Stafford, Virginia USA Joined: 03/03/20 Gender:	Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines Reply #9 - 08/31/24 at 12:19:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	FWIW, Perhaps the ultimate book on the c3 Sicillian is Sveshnikov's "The Complete c3 Sicillian." But it is long out of print and when it does show up it can cost $150US. On Ebay there are 2 copies up, one for $127, the other for $750 (!!). BUT... there is a work-around. The site thechessworld.com sells a 5-part video in the older Foxy DVD series by GM Ron Henley for $7.99 per volume. So, $39.95 for all. The whole set is 246 minutes, BUT, no pgns, you will be taking lots of notes! But wait! the site is having a Labor Day sale! I tried loading it in my cart and entering the sale code: LABOR65. It took it and the total was $13.98. 6 hours of content for $2.33 US per hour. I never finished it, so can't answer questions about it. Also, I get nothing for this. Just a FWIW if you are interested in the c3 Sicillian. Here's a link to Vol. 5: https://thechessworld.com/store/product/crushing-black-with-the-c3-sicilian-vol-... Andrew [EDIT: Ooops! It is not 6 hours for the set, it is average 4 hours PER volume. About 20 hours of content]


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FreeRepublic God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 783 Location: Georgia Joined: 06/08/17 Gender:	Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines Reply #8 - 08/28/24 at 16:36:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	GMs Jobava and Basso have produced a two part series at Modern-chess which recommends the Alapin for White. Part 2 covers all lines other than 2...Nf6. I recommend the sample chapter which covers the lines under discussion in this thread.


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FreeRepublic

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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #7 - 05/13/24 at 20:35:32

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It should be noted that Black's knights can come out in either order:

1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6
or
1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5!? 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Nf6!?

Now 6dxc and 6Be3 are critical. We've covered the former. After 6Be3 (1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Nf6 6. Be3), I suggest 6...Bg4 7. dc5 e6

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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #6 - 05/13/24 at 20:10:28

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FreeRepublic wrote on 05/10/24 at 16:32:16:

I've been looking at 7...Nf6 instead.

Which brings to mind the possibilty of playing 5...Nf6, as in the original post:

"b) 5 Nf3 Nf6 6 dc* Qd1 7 Kd1 and here my understanding (such as it is) is that 7 …Bf5! 8 Be3! 0-0-0 9 Nbd2 e6! 10 b4 Nd5 11 Rc1 Be7! is OK for Black."

At present I prefer 8...Nd5. 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. dc5 Qd1 7.Kd1 Bf5 8. Be3 Nd5, though it may transpose.

The play is very complex, but I think it is ok for Black.

Perhaps a simpler way to play is 2...Nf6.

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Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines
Reply #5 - 05/10/24 at 16:32:16

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1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. d4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bg4 6. dxc5!? Qd1! 7. Kd1

may be one of the better ways to play dxc as White.

7...e5 "Black has other moves here, such as 7...0-0-0+ or even just 7...Nf6, but this is clearly the most direct," John Emms, Starting out the c3 Sicilian.

White has done well from this position. I've been looking at 7...Nf6 instead.

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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1947 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines Reply #4 - 03/18/17 at 12:33:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I think 4...Nf6 5d4xc5 Qxc5 is pretty harmless. Without Nc6, the queen can slip back to c7 when required, and black can develop with g6,and Bg7. Black can play e6, with rubinstein french pawn structure,if likes that kind of thing too. Many thanks for this. I was probably over-influenced by a comment by Jonathan Rowson on ChessPub that he didn't personally fancy Black after 5 ...Qxc5 6 Nf3. But he did acknowledge that White isn't better, and to me these just look 'chances for both sides' positions.


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MarinFan Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 435 Location: Leeds Joined: 04/04/06 Gender:	Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines Reply #3 - 03/16/17 at 23:18:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think 4...Nf6 5d4xc5 Qxc5 is pretty harmless. Without Nc6, the queen can slip back to c7 when required, and black can develop with g6,and Bg7. Black can play e6, with rubinstein french pawn structure,if likes that kind of thing too.


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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1947 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines Reply #2 - 03/07/17 at 14:10:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Afaik 5.dxc5 is just meant to be generally harmless, although it has to be added that the main line 5.Nf3 also isn't promising anything special for White, so there is some merit to playing these sidelines (or Nakamura's early Na3 as done vs. Yu) on an occasional basis. Personally I would be inclined to start with 5.Nf3 and go dxc5 against certain replies. Very interesting, thanks. I see there's more than one comment, in ChessPub updates by Dave Smerdon and others, that quite a few strong players are choosing 4 ...e6 to obviate dxc5 stuff, but perhaps that's just to cut down on preparation and 'mess' against that 'occasional' opponent rather than any objective signal? I'd be interested to know which replies might tempt you into 6 dxc5. (Not [4 ...Nc6 5 Nf3] 5 ...Nf6, presumably!)


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: 2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines Reply #1 - 03/07/17 at 13:35:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	Afaik 5.dxc5 is just meant to be generally harmless, although it has to be added that the main line 5.Nf3 also isn't promising anything special for White, so there is some merit to playing these sidelines (or Nakamura's early Na3 as done vs. Yu) on an occasional basis. Personally I would be inclined to start with 5.Nf3 and go dxc5 against certain replies.

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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1947 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	2 c3 d5 -- dxc5 pawn-sac lines 03/06/17 at 22:36:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	Can anyone tell me: is there any theoretical consensus about the value of the three dxc5 pawn-sac variations that Black can allow in seeking to reach mainline 2 c3 d5 positions, or about the best setups within them? Of course, Black can eliminate these with [3 ed Qd5 4 d4] 4 …e6, but then 5 Nf3 Nf6 6 Na3! is a bit of a pain. (The latest ChessPub update here looks to confirm this?) So what is the status of 4 …Nf6 relative to 4 …Nc6, I wonder, and is/are either or both OK? For example: I 4 …Nf6 5 dc Qd1 6 Kd1, and here I suppose 6 …e5 7 b4 a5 is the main line, but I notice some strong players have preferred 6 …g6!?. II 4 …Nc6 and: (a) 5 dc Qd1 6 Kd1. Now I wonder how 6 …e5 7 b4 a5 compares with Line I, but also whether Black should prefer 6 …Bf5!?, which again seems favoured by a few top players. (b) 5 Nf3 Nf6 6 dc* Qd1 7 Kd1 and here my understanding (such as it is) is that 7 …Bf5! 8 Be3! 0-0-0 9 Nbd2 e6! 10 b4 Nd5 11 Rc1 Be7! is OK for Black. So is ‘II’ (any) safer/better than ‘I’? * Of course, White could grant Black a mainline position with 6 Be2 cd 7 cd e6 8 Nc3 Qd6 (8 …Bb4!?), but then Black has managed to cut out a number of options White could have chosen with the 4 …e6 5 Nf3 Nf6 move order.


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